Episode 125: This is part 2 of our conversation based around repacks, and to continue the dialogue from a different perspective is Jonno Michaels from mail man breaks.
We planned to do 15 minutes or so, but ended up going long at nearly an hour and a half.
During this time we discuss repacks, his love of memorabilia, Fanatics, where the hobby is headed and the last two year (Post hobby apocalypse).
Thank You to our sponsors EJ Cards Online Store and Facebook, ‘The Bang Man’ Facebook and Instagram and our new sponsor SlamBox and DJs Trading Cards.
Reach out to us on socials and tell us what we got right or wrong!
Instagram: youcantcompthis
Twitter @youcantcompthis
Gmail youcantcompthis@gmail.com
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/groups/youcantcompthis
Episode 125: This is part 2 of our conversation based around repacks, and to continue the dialogue from a different perspective is Jonno Michaels from mail man breaks.
We planned to do 15 minutes or so, but ended up going long at nearly an hour and a half.
During this time we discuss repacks, his love of memorabilia, Fanatics, where the hobby is headed and the last two year (Post hobby apocalypse).
Thank You to our sponsors EJ Cards Online Store and Facebook, ‘The Bang Man’ Facebook and Instagram and our new sponsor SlamBox and DJs Trading Cards.
Reach out to us on socials and tell us what we got right or wrong!
Instagram: youcantcompthis
Twitter @youcantcompthis
Gmail youcantcompthis@gmail.com
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/groups/youcantcompthis
00:00.00
youcantcompthis
So we've got our second guest for today's podcast it is Mr. Jono'michaels Jono hello how are you today? Good thanks for joining us I really do appreciate it Adam says hello. He's just having a bit of a a week off in the pasture today. So he'll be. He'll be back soon. Don't worry.
00:07.80
jono michaels
I'm great rossell yourself.
00:14.13
jono michaels
Lucky him.
00:19.17
youcantcompthis
So why don't you just give us a really quick introduction of yourself and then we'll kick off about Repacs because that was the reason why I wanted to get you on here and pick your brain about your philosophy of repas.
00:31.18
jono michaels
Yeah, sounds like a bit of fun. Um, okay so my name's John O longtime collector started collecting in my early years as a lot of us in the hobby hit now have took a.
00:42.25
youcantcompthis
Um, yeah, yeah.
00:44.15
jono michaels
Took a hiatus through my my my teens and early 20 s and then found myself back in the hobby probably late 2018 collector of memorabilia and cards. Um.
00:51.79
youcantcompthis
Yeah.
01:00.54
jono michaels
Breaker own page mailmount breaks and also run sports Cartanics Australia a bywap sell page and um, just love love the game of basketball and I guess that that brings my my love of collecting cards and and memorabilia.
01:03.64
youcantcompthis
Yes.
01:16.67
youcantcompthis
Just full circle. Yeah yeah.
01:20.20
jono michaels
Yeah, so enamored with basketball obsessed with basketball I do I do have league pass my my loophole is just being found for the last seven years I've been ah I've been buying league pass through Mexico.
01:23.51
youcantcompthis
Do you have league pass. That's the real question.
01:36.23
youcantcompthis
Through a vpn.
01:40.90
jono michaels
Twenty Nine Ninety nine and my but my brother in law emailed me about four weeks ago and he goes did you just get an email from Mba League pass because they had seen that obviously been viewing it through my normal Australia. Um.
01:58.26
jono michaels
Ah, computer and I ah correct so now. So now I said because it's on automatic subscription and it's now saying that if I want to renew it will be at the the Australian rates but ah.
01:59.65
youcantcompthis
Yeah, so now they bill you on the hours that you watch it in that country. Yeah.
02:14.53
youcantcompthis
Yeah.
02:17.66
jono michaels
Yes I do have league pass and it gets used quite frequently.
02:20.69
youcantcompthis
Look can I be honest with you I think that's the Mba's fault that they have different prices for different countries.
02:31.59
jono michaels
It should be. It should be mainstream. You'd think it would be yeah equal across the board. But um, each their own.
02:32.30
youcantcompthis
Yeah, yeah, so if there is a loophole there. You know I don't think the Nba can complain too much about that but can't you still use a vpn to watch it or is it too laggy to do that.
02:47.70
jono michaels
I'm sure you can I was just I was just on a fantasy page ten years ago or whatever it was eight years ago and a guy is like oh I found a little loophole and he signed us all up and we had their on you know, recurring billing so we never had to worry about it.
02:56.45
youcantcompthis
Um, yeah.
03:01.49
youcantcompthis
Um, yeah, yeah.
03:01.65
jono michaels
But literally four weeks ago my brother-in-law message me. He's like we got this email but but have a ges and I'm sure I could watch it on vpn. But um.
03:08.78
youcantcompthis
I got to be honestly I'm just like too lazy to do stuff like that and I've always just like paid for it normally but actually a few years ago it was $300 a year and then they dropped the price to like 51 so
03:21.50
jono michaels
It's not too bad when you see what you get for it I'm happy to pay the one fifty
03:24.80
youcantcompthis
The one fifty I think is totally fine. But I'm not goingnna lie to you though I always felt a little bit I would always pay for it but I was always a bit reluctant to you know to go back with that $300 Mark but yeah, hundred and fifty I don't even think about that. It's beautiful. Yeah, all right? Let's um, let's get down to.
03:36.47
jono michaels
I Could It's a good service.
03:42.45
youcantcompthis
To brass hackcks. So without going back into over this too much because I just went through this with Maddie I'm definitely interested in repacks because a year ago I wouldn't have touched them with a thirty foot pole whereas now my thinking is you know, coming around a little bit and most of that is because I think there's a large enough sample size to say look this is a good repack. This is a repax to stay away from I think there's a lot more cards available now for smaller dollars. So then I think repax can be built to be. You know, looking a bit more I suppose appealing is maybe the better word. So I wanted to get your opinion because. Matt was definitely in the lower end spectrum was I would probably consider you mid to higher end in terms of repacks I want to you know hear your thoughts of how you build them why you build them in the way you do and you know and and let's sort of just go from there. Yeah.
04:33.37
jono michaels
Yeah, So um, the way I build a repack is I try and buy cards for repack that I know that I'd want to Hit. Um. Ah, try and find and buy cards that people may not find attainable in a normal break. They want to go in someone. Not everyone can afford to on a flawless break. No Everyone can afford to go on an nt break. So I try and find cards that.
04:51.80
youcantcompthis
Um, yeah.
05:03.57
jono michaels
You know, ah great hits in those products but let's put it a more attainable price in in my repack. Um I have.
05:11.83
youcantcompthis
I've never done the numbers on the return on Nt and flawless. But there's probably a pretty strong argument just to buy singles isn't there.
05:20.66
jono michaels
So hard like if you're gonna open ah a box yourself the return probably isn't amazing unless you hit you know one of the top five ten percent of chase cards. You know if you want to enter a break and spend.
05:29.31
youcantcompthis
Yeah.
05:36.39
jono michaels
Three hundred bucks or something on an nt break. You know you can't get lucky. You can't you can't hit one of the good rookie teams or 1 a superstar you know golden state Mas Laker teams and hit a hit a nice Lucas de lebron card. Um, but it's it's you know.
05:38.76
youcantcompthis
Um, yeah.
05:46.34
youcantcompthis
Um, yeah.
05:51.41
jono michaels
People want to collect singles or people want to have the thrill of still sitting there watching a box getting broken or opening the box yourself. You know still I still have that thrill opening a pack myself and trying to hit a card and I know more than likely it's better off that I can get us gone buy that single online but um.
05:57.45
youcantcompthis
Yeah.
06:06.19
youcantcompthis
Gift.
06:09.97
jono michaels
Depends what your what your kryptonide is and what what gets your heart rate going. Um, that's right? but but yeah, ah I focus on like I'll normally have a list of 2 to 3 players for every team that I want to target for a repack. Um.
06:11.91
youcantcompthis
Yeah, yeah, yeah, that's yeah, sorry of segue you you man? yeah.
06:29.71
jono michaels
Not saying that's right or wrong. Um, you know guys have diverse ah player collections pcs but I generally try and focus on probably the top rookie from each team and then a current superstar and then then a superstar from the past. Um. You know I in my repack you know, ah see you're wearing a kings t-shirt at the moment I'm but ah, you know I'm Goingnna look for a a daran Fox I'm Goingnna look for a sir bonus I'm gonna look for a a rookie like ah a Kagan Murray
06:52.10
youcantcompthis
Absolutely.
07:07.57
jono michaels
I'm not going to go and buy a $600 Kevin Hertier flawless card because somebody would prefer to hit a $600 gold select order of Drn Fox and a high end flawless Kevin Nertier so definitely have lots of fun buying for repack. Um, it's funny I actually negotiate more on cars that I'm putting into reapp than I negotiate cars to my own pc I just want to get the best value possible for the people that buying into my repack.
07:29.81
youcantcompthis
Um, yeah.
07:40.24
youcantcompthis
Um, yeah.
07:46.53
jono michaels
And I want them to see the graph that I make and think oh my God that's like unbelievable I can't believe it's got this card cover that's got that card. How did you fit this old in for that price. So I'm definitely very passionate when I'm buying for it and um, you know I might see a Pc car and I'll be like yeah.
08:00.58
youcantcompthis
Um, yeah.
08:05.21
jono michaels
Five hundred bucks I'm going to buy it I don't want to miss out on that. But when I'm buying for ah for Repack I'm very more selective and and try and drive a a harder bargaining against a seller but that just is too. Um. The better outcome for the repacking for the the consumer.
08:27.56
youcantcompthis
It's easier to make your margined when you're doing it like that too I Suppose that's yeah yeah.
08:31.98
jono michaels
Yeah, well you know you want to win and win for everybody. Um, people have to understand that when you do make a repack it. It is a business like I'm not I'm not hiding around the Bushes here. It is I do make a repack as a business.
08:38.19
youcantcompthis
Yes.
08:46.72
youcantcompthis
Um, yeah.
08:48.97
jono michaels
Yes I do make money out of it and nine nine percent of the money I do make out of it goes back into the hobby anyway. So it's not like I'm I'm taking the money out of the hobby and flying off to vanuatu I'm ah i' ready. You'll see on a lot of the pages I'm reinvesting it very quickly.
09:04.98
youcantcompthis
Yeah, and so you were saying that you would try and pick a rookie a current star on a pastar. So are you building a repack with 90 cards is that about.
09:13.96
jono michaels
No yeah, that's just so so my repax generally have 48 cards so when I'm saying I target those guys is I won't every team is covered in my repack. So whether it be with a card.
09:28.20
youcantcompthis
Right? okay.
09:33.56
jono michaels
Piece of memorabilia or if I can't find a good car for that particular repack we put in brake credit. So I might not have a clippers hit for that repack. So I'll put in some brake credit normally 5 6 7 8 sometimes $1200 which is the fun way to to reinvest into brakes and have some fun.
09:36.54
youcantcompthis
Yeah.
09:44.99
youcantcompthis
Yeah, right. Um, yeah.
09:52.80
jono michaels
Um, so no so it'll be like say ah I'm literally building a repack as we speak which is hopefully going to be released tomorrow or Monday and again I'll use a kingins. For example I won't have a kings here I'll be scrolling the pages on Facebook and I will look for sir bonus Fox.
09:59.57
youcantcompthis
Yeah.
10:11.44
jono michaels
Maybe like an old school Chris Webber um a murray but I won't put in a Alex lem I won't put in a you know something? That's a good deal. It's all might card to me and go oh but it comes to five hundred bucks you have three hundred bucks and I'll put myself in the person buying into the the repack I'm like no I don't want to hit one of those players I want to hit a superstar because generally what happens is a lot of people will hit a carda repack which are I'll break online and the.
10:34.73
youcantcompthis
Yeah.
10:46.27
jono michaels
First thing they do is I'll go to ebay. They'll go to one hundred thirty point dot com and say oh how good that I just paid nine nine dollars and I just hit a card that comes at four hundred and twenty eight bucks but they also want to have a connection to that card like I'll be like oh yeah, Fox is one of the top 5 point cards in the game right now I'd love to keep that. Ah.
11:05.48
jono michaels
Can flip that Fox I ah I know Russell Pc's Fox I'm going to so I want to going to pick up Russell and see what he has correct and and you see a lot of repacs or will have players and you're like it's just people getting rid of cards that they've had or they've bought this huge bulk deal.
11:07.72
youcantcompthis
Yeah, easily trade that easily sell that into something for your piece here. Yeah, definitely yeah.
11:23.18
jono michaels
And they're getting rid of players people don't really want or need I can't trade I can't sell or that it' they're not liquid Cards. So I Want to make sure that it's a card. That's either someone wants to really keep because it's a really high end player. It's a really high and rookie or it's ah or it's a liquid card. Which they can swap trade sell for another card.
11:46.22
youcantcompthis
So and just to give some of this some context because you've thrown out some numbers that are $1200 four hundred dollars you said buying is $99 and is that at 30 teams is that how you price it.
12:00.72
jono michaels
Yeah, so so my repax have slightly different prices. So my my normal repack is a $99 buy in 30 spots. So twenty nine hundred and seventy dollars income um it's not half people to work out I'm not hiding behind trees.
12:03.80
youcantcompthis
Um, yeah.
12:08.48
youcantcompthis
Um, yeah.
12:17.58
jono michaels
Um, but my repack has four boxes per break so in the repack there's what we call a major hit so every single set of 4 You're guaranteed to hit one of the the 12 chase cards. Um.
12:20.66
youcantcompthis
Yes, okay.
12:36.15
jono michaels
A major hit. There's a break credit and then 2 other cards in in each lot of 4 and what I do is I show all my repapps on screen and I let the people that buy in choose which which lot of 4 we open because there's um, a lot a bit of a stigma with repax that you know you can.
12:39.27
youcantcompthis
Okay.
12:55.47
youcantcompthis
No, just say what is because by the way that Stigma is well deserved too because there has been manipulation. Yeah yeah.
12:56.28
jono michaels
What's right word? Yeah I've caught. Yeah, ah yeah manipulation. Um, you know numbering of boxes people know what's in the boxes.
13:08.18
youcantcompthis
Yeah, and giving friends or particular breakers boxes. They know are loaded that are going to get high visibility. Yeah.
13:14.97
jono michaels
Correct ah lot lot some breakers ah make their own repack or put boxes of of their repack into mixes but they will actually put those boxes in. So.
13:30.28
jono michaels
They basically know what's in those boxes unless they're like heat sealed plastic and not numbered so I show every box on screen and I'll let the people that are bought into the break that are live on Stream you pick which boxes we're opening to make it as fair as possible.
13:30.55
youcantcompthis
Um, yeah, that's right.
13:42.27
youcantcompthis
Yeah, yeah.
13:47.52
jono michaels
Um, I've seen other break groups do a randomizer like they will number the boxes which is also really fair. Um, a randomized top. Whatever it is. It's 1 box 2 box top top 1 2 3 4 boxes. The other boxes were going to open. So yeah I know a couple of years ago there was a.
13:50.47
youcantcompthis
Um, yeah, yeah.
14:05.40
jono michaels
A couple of repacks and a couple of breakers are doing a couple of shifty things and that brought ah a bad vi onto repax and there lots of discussions on forums and your your whatsapp groups and and wherever you're discussing cards. So I laid all on the table. You know all 48 cards are put on my checklist.
14:14.35
youcantcompthis
Yeah, yeah.
14:22.26
youcantcompthis
Um, yeah.
14:24.76
jono michaels
Checklist. There's a photo a graphic or Bots are on screen the breakers choose which box we open and that's how I sort I'm not saying it's right or wrong. But that's what I think is the fairest way.
14:37.21
youcantcompthis
No definitely I would say the reason why I reached out to you is I would also say I approve of the way you do it I think and part of the reason why I like the way you do it is the transparency because I think that's really important because I think in some repacs they will show you the the cream of the crop. But they won't show you what's filling out the the bottom ends of it I think that's the the polite way of saying it and so there is something that speaks to me about knowing what's 100 % in the repack. That's there. So you know you can choose whether to to buy and or to you know to not buy and I have to admit I quite like that. Yeah.
15:16.44
jono michaels
Yeah, might the the rationale ah I did it was I'm not saying I'm revolutionary when I started do my own repack I looked at basically repats everywhere and you know I was looking at hit parade I was looking at like some of the big repacts in America.
15:24.45
youcantcompthis
Yeah, run.
15:31.17
youcantcompthis
Yes.
15:33.16
jono michaels
Looking at some of the really good repaths were being done here like I'm not just saying mines are best but I believe my products are best but there are other great products out there too and and I was looking at everything and I was like nowhere was there a checklist as you said I showing the cream they were showing the Kobe order they were showing the.
15:39.36
youcantcompthis
Um, yeah.
15:51.69
jono michaels
Showing the Jordan rookie but a full checklist top to bottom of every single card at the time I couldn't find any and I was opening a repack on the braggs page I'm not going to name the repack. It's actually a really good repack but I was opening it and.
15:56.21
youcantcompthis
Um, yes.
16:11.50
jono michaels
Out came this Anthony Davis Card it was a psa ten and it was quite expensive Repac and I got ah got offline I got a ah a pm from the person at water up like god how good my congratulations you've just hit the a d and.
16:19.14
youcantcompthis
Um, yeah.
16:29.99
jono michaels
He showed me the exact same card as in it was the same psa sequence card. It was numbered out of 10 and it had been bought on ebay for a dollar 29 us and it was in a re pack that was three hundred and fifty dollars and for me my whole rationale is is if you hit in my repack the value of the card is greater than what your buying is it has to be there if you're the inverted commas the winner. But the card is still valued less that you're buying in a repack the repat for me is no good.
17:11.39
youcantcompthis
Yeah I think you can do that because you have the 4 over 30 proposition. But I I think in the instance of so let's let's just say Cherry pie. They do need the dollar 20 cards in there because every. Every person who buys a cherry pie gets a card. So I think I'm not yeah yeah, Awesome. The the product you're referring to was built as a breaking product. Sure yeah.
17:33.90
jono michaels
Um, ah yeah that that's completely different that that a cherry pie is not a ah breaking part.
17:44.30
jono michaels
Correct. Yeah, if if you're but if you're buying a cherry pie. It's like buying a pack of cards you know, but the cherry pie is guaranteeing you that someone can hit a Jordan rookie someone can hit a Luca Rpa someone can hit a kobi auto and I totally understand that and.
17:50.15
youcantcompthis
Yeah, yeah.
17:57.81
youcantcompthis
Yeah, yeah, yeah, and that's how they even that demographic or they even they make the numbers work in that instance. Yeah, yeah.
18:04.18
jono michaels
Ah, that.
18:08.43
jono michaels
Ah I was ah I was on the cherry crew page a couple of weeks ago because they um, they'd released a cherry pie and they released a yeah, a reap half that was for the agent card show in Macau. Um, a current order is called anyway.
18:17.76
youcantcompthis
Sure Yeah, it was like a gold Packer a God pack or they called it something like that. Yeah yeah, yeah.
18:24.86
jono michaels
Yeah, it was cherry picked cherry I bought a couple I speaking to Dale and I was like you know what? um'm I'm going ah going to buy a couple and open them with my kids and um someone you know people post up the hits and of course people don't hit well say oh you know I've done so unlucky and.
18:32.42
youcantcompthis
Yeah.
18:41.80
youcantcompthis
You see both ends of the spectrum on the Cherry farms. You see the grumbles and you see the hit So that's probably I will say that they're very fair in publishing both ends of that too. Yeah.
18:43.13
jono michaels
And I went there.
18:51.63
jono michaels
Yeah I went on there and I was um I don't have a relationship with cherries I'm not saying I'm doing this on purpose but I went on there and I I was backing up Cherry I'm like you could understand when there's an upside there has to be a downside you know.
19:03.56
youcantcompthis
Yeah, not every person to we know that that's the yeah yeah.
19:08.80
jono michaels
If every person's a winner. Cherry is losing a lot of money putting in that repack together. So yeah, more that's how I do my repack. Um, um this how memorable it was only opened that.
19:16.85
youcantcompthis
What'd you get out of the cherry repax by the way. I was going to say that That's a very ominous long pause. Yeah.
19:25.87
jono michaels
No I think it was a it was a psa Tenn Allen Iverson silver it was 21018 select base silver um I hit it was a la milan limit.
19:33.57
youcantcompthis
Okay.
19:39.83
youcantcompthis
Could it could be worse. It could be a shengoon PS a 6 it.
19:44.40
jono michaels
Yeah I know it's one that's got one of those um I hit ah the Mello ball exosphere which is out of flux. Yeah, which I thought was valued a bit more when I looked it up but I hit that.
19:52.52
youcantcompthis
Out of flux. Yeah.
20:00.76
youcantcompthis
See that also depends on your knowledge of Science doesn't it because it depends on how much you know about the atmosphere and and where it sits I'm not going to lie to you I don't know the distances of of the atmosphere.
20:01.44
jono michaels
And I hit.
20:09.83
jono michaels
What with the exospher is actually what the high end hit in that product so you'll see on the back. They've got little dots and it's the it's the five dot. It's the it's the higher end Lamelo and I hit I can remember it.
20:24.83
youcantcompthis
Speaking of Lamelo just where you spoke but have you seen his all star voting for this year I know he I was gonna say he hasn't done well at all I think he's around tenth or twelfth in the I think Demada wrote.
20:31.41
jono michaels
He's very popular.
20:35.46
jono michaels
Um, no, but for a guy that hasn't played.
20:42.46
youcantcompthis
Demaer Rosin's got more votes in him this year sir
20:44.83
jono michaels
Um, I was looking at it last week um I I know we're getting off repas here but the know that the.
20:49.47
youcantcompthis
We can go back. Don't worry. We segue is part of the show.
20:56.10
jono michaels
The popularity contest of the alllar has to change somehow I don't know how it changes I don't know but there.
21:00.82
youcantcompthis
It's a popularity contest though. That's the idea of it. The the starters is the popularity contest and then the the old stars I'm using air quotes now is done by the the coaches the players I like that. Definitely.
21:13.74
jono michaels
Still some guys may see out every year that probably should get in. Um, but anyway that.
21:17.56
youcantcompthis
Yeah, definitely speaking of that. So actually it does matter because they're contracts. They get a bonus for being an ulster and zack low who's in my mind one of the better and Mba writers and commentator. He actually withdrew his his. Ability to vote because he didn't want that responsibility of moving someone's needle from one hundred eighty million dollars to $100000000 so yeah I don't know I actually think it's a little bit gutless is not the right word but you know to me like why? not.
21:43.17
jono michaels
Yeah, ah, it's very noble of.
21:53.25
jono michaels
I know in in afl terms when ex- players and commentators get to ask to vote on things like like ah you know the norm Smith which is on the best on ground in the ground final i' like a privilege to be asked me to to be a part of the the voting. So.
21:54.40
youcantcompthis
Have a say on that.
22:07.90
youcantcompthis
That's right? Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, we've segwayed so hard to Afl this is this is disgusting I'm I'm gonna edit that Afl I'm gonna beep it out. Actually we're not having Afl on my podcast. This is terrible all right.
22:10.61
jono michaels
Ah, if I was us I would I'll definitely be voting and I sorry that's her honor.
22:23.95
jono michaels
Full. Yeah.
22:24.72
youcantcompthis
So back to repax. Let's let's close You let's get your final thoughts on repack So where are you at with that.
22:32.70
jono michaels
Guy. Ah I'm not just saying this because I make a repack. Um I I like the certainty of a repack. Um, let let's not beat around the Bush I open both boxes and repacks.
22:46.82
youcantcompthis
Um, yeah, yeah, yeah.
22:48.80
jono michaels
Both have pros and cons right? You go into my repac. You're not going to hit a $200000 card you know people want to buy it to flawless to nt they want to hit that huge logo man they want to hit this huge rpa to 5 to 10 the true rpas to ninety nine nt nine um percent of the time.
23:03.62
youcantcompthis
Yeah.
23:07.79
jono michaels
You're not going to hit that in a repack but my certainty is is that if you're going to spend $99 in my repack break. You are going to hit a car that is $1000 plus someone one of the 30 spots. You are generally going to hit a card that's around the 6 to $700 mark you are going to hit a 4 to $1200 brake credit voucher and you are going to hit a card my low end normal hits around $2000 so double your buying if you hit worst case scenario. Whereas you can go into a box of spectra say you go into a box of spectra and you're chasing a color blast or a nicer rpa or one of the variations and an rpa might come out and it might be a calebs houston rpa to 49.
23:46.90
youcantcompthis
Yeah.
23:55.80
youcantcompthis
Yeah, yeah, or Johnny Davis in my instance, that's the guy who's been chasing me around this year yeah
23:59.87
jono michaels
And there you go. So so you're like oh how good's that I've just bought into a spectral break and I've paid forty bucks for my spot and I've hit the magic so you're just you're done well to start with you've hit the big team. You're chasing the ban chero or you hit.
24:14.84
youcantcompthis
Oh yeah.
24:19.56
jono michaels
Hit o kc who's got you know a couple rookies to to to hit and then once you've hit the team then I need to hit that card and my rationale is is why take the risk on that where I can only show you my repack I've got a kobe auto I've got a lebron auto I've got a. Ah, Luke Carono a step auto I've got all these big cards already there sitting there for you I'm guaranteeing you that one of those big hits is gonna be hitting this four I'm guaranteeing you that out of these other 24 cards and 12 break credits you are gonna hit not you.
24:41.23
youcantcompthis
Yeah.
24:57.12
jono michaels
1 of those 34 of those 30 entrants are going to hit those big cards. So and that's what brought me to about a year ago it brought me to I created a case hit only repack I was obsessed with case hits and this this was my big thing.
24:58.51
youcantcompthis
Yep.
25:16.98
jono michaels
So people love Blank Slates Timeless Moments Downtowns Auroras Whatever they are stain glass and I'm like people buy into a.
25:25.55
youcantcompthis
Um, yeah.
25:31.44
jono michaels
I'll use corking's blassters for example or having a chat off air about blank slates. So say a corking's blaster I haven't done my mouse on the spot here say there's twenty hundred bucks for corking's blaster on release day right? There's 20 boxes 200 bus it's 4 grand 30 spots
25:31.80
youcantcompthis
Um, yeah, yeah.
25:42.60
youcantcompthis
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
25:50.53
jono michaels
Hundred and thirty three dollars a spot right? So 133 bus a spot and everybody buys a spot and you know not every tame first. All has a blank slate but they're generally the stars on the top rookies.
25:50.72
youcantcompthis
You are the Meth's man.
26:04.77
youcantcompthis
I Think they've changed that now I think there is a blank everyone but that's fine. Yeah, that doesn't matter. Yeah yeah I see where you're going with this? Yeah, keep going keep going. Yeah yeah.
26:10.70
jono michaels
Ah, that Okay anyway. Okay so again I'll use some magic For example I Yeah I hate I Hate the magic and I'm like I'm sitting in my computer. Unbelievable Yes I got the magic right once I've hit the magic.
26:23.74
youcantcompthis
Yeah.
26:27.83
jono michaels
Genuinely it's not guaranteed, but generally there's 1 blank slate per case. Um.
26:34.54
youcantcompthis
Yeah, so I'll just interject here again I'm sorry to keep doing this to you there also have been cases with 0 blank slates. Yeah and there's also been cases with 2 so that is that was actually if I can.
26:39.80
jono michaels
Um, that's all right I'm about to get to that? yeah.
26:52.86
youcantcompthis
Ah, decompress here for 2 seconds that was my biggest complaint this year about that product was that the variability was so high from 0 to 2 like that and as a breaker look you always want you know people to hit but seeing people go into a case and not even get 1 it's It's very difficult. It's very difficult. Honestly, yeah.
27:11.78
jono michaels
That's not that that's not only this year that's happened for the last three years so what they do is they also have you know obviously in the in the blasted cases. The there's the auto to 8 which is so like I opened a case I didn't hit any blank slides I hit 3 autos to 8 were good autos to I hit a a chat to a Jabari Smith to aid and 20 else say they're all stickers but people are going into case breaks of ckck glasses to hit a black slate like that's what they want. So I think that's what they want.
27:44.42
youcantcompthis
So I actually don't recall exactly what we got because I think we did three cases of that and the one that we got 0 slates in I don't think we got any good autographs at it was.
27:59.80
jono michaels
Yeah, well as I said panini I'm not standing up for panini but that they they don't advertise it as 1 per case. It's just there's enough that have been opens enough sample size that people say you know what there's generally what at least 1 per case.
28:00.20
youcantcompthis
It was a very average case. Let me put it to you that way. Yeah.
28:18.25
jono michaels
So it's not. It's not advertised anywhere that there's one per case. No, it's classified as a case hit but it doesn't say guaranteed 1 per case. So so.
28:21.59
youcantcompthis
Isn't it. Advertiser's case here.
28:27.76
youcantcompthis
Yes.
28:32.28
jono michaels
They call it a case hit. It's like when they classify in in prison retail though I might say a a pulsar is a case hit but there's not 1 pulse per case I think it's the word in they use not like we guarantee one pulse per case but our case hit. Yeah.
28:45.55
youcantcompthis
Yeah, they say on average. That's the wording that they they like to lean back on. Yeah.
28:52.20
jono michaels
Well I think I think on some of the bots that they've actually taken on average off I was having this discussion with someone on it was some of the boxes. Anyway, we we'll we'll go back to it a case hit repack. So you've paid one hundred and thirty three bucks for your your your court king spot. You've hit your tip you hit the.
28:57.55
youcantcompthis
Okay.
29:03.53
youcantcompthis
Yeah.
29:10.78
youcantcompthis
Yeah.
29:11.21
jono michaels
Ah, one of the big chase teams and then a blank slate of trying of wrap my brain here 1920 corkings you get you get? ah a bradly bele ah blank slate for the wizards.
29:29.43
youcantcompthis
Yep yep.
29:29.97
jono michaels
If you're the wizards you're happy. You've hit a blank slate. Probably worth one hundred and fifty bucks which is worth you know $17 more than you're buying and I say why go into that. It's been $133 that 1 person might hit a blank slate. Why don't you go into my repa for $99 where I'm guaranteeing you that of the 4 cards there is going to be either a blank slate a timeless moments a kaboom any of the big. Um, chase caseheads and what a lot of the people go into those case breaks for and I'm like that. That's just usinglawins for example, which the probably a lower end hobby product. You know it starts get more expensive when you start buy into like a crown royaly r with the you know you're chasing the cabooms la.
30:09.19
youcantcompthis
Yep.
30:20.41
youcantcompthis
And Spectra. Yeah, yeah, yeah, and appropriately so too. By the way those cards are amazing. Honestly, yeah.
30:23.57
jono michaels
Yeah, last year was a slight variation because they introduced the gold kabooms back. Um, which are you know fetching huge prices.
30:33.57
jono michaels
Yeah, we we need that. But so so if someone's buying you know in Australia a boxer this start to drop a little bit so I but I mean I mean looking at them I wanted to buy 1 for a repack.
30:40.47
youcantcompthis
I Think those cards are going to be very available long term to.
30:51.40
jono michaels
I Really wanted a gold caboom for a repak, um the other fifty. Yeah, so the the the blue in the red.
30:54.83
youcantcompthis
But if you you look at the prices on pmgs that are numbered to what or sometimes even ah, don't they go up to a hundred or one hundred and ninety nine yeah but so if that's number to 10 ah I really find it hard to. Almost not use that as a direct comp to be perfectly. Honest, no, no, definitely not. But I think if you're trying to extend something out over the long term I think those kabooms are yeah I think they're going to be.
31:12.89
jono michaels
But you know there's no rom no reason to practicing in this hobby.
31:24.40
jono michaels
I desperate I desperately what one for a repac and there's a there's a young kid in the hobby. He's not a kid. We speak quite often and he lives around the corner from me and he he puts up the sale of the day always on his page. So it's ca mills from Karzoz and the other day he put up a sale I think. Memory of the Kd the k hard and and sold for about 3700 us when they first obviously when the product comes out. There's a hype. The prices are inflated. Um and I looked and the price that it probably about dropppped to about 40%
31:55.10
youcantcompthis
Yes.
32:02.82
jono michaels
So I've got quite a few of them on my watch list and I do scour lots of forums and and sales pages and and apps on a daily basis and I really really really want to get a gold Kabom for a repack. Um and I'm going to make it happen.
32:11.70
youcantcompthis
Yes.
32:24.21
youcantcompthis
I'm not going to say I told you so because it's like it's so ridiculous. But I feel like if you buy this and you put it into a repack in 20 years time you'll be like I can't believe I bought that for 2 or 3 and I put it into a repack honestly i.
32:38.33
jono michaels
Ah, ah, there's there's lots of cards like that but some have gone the other way as well.
32:41.18
youcantcompthis
Yeah, yeah, yeah, definitely I Just think those particular cards are going to stay.
32:47.89
jono michaels
Well that that's that goes back to my rationale when I said like you know you said how do you build your repack I Want to buy cards that people really really really want in the end of the day. Yeah I'm I'm not buying stuff because.
32:56.71
youcantcompthis
Yeah, yeah, and that is a genuine chase code.
33:05.89
jono michaels
Or chucking in stuffing because I've got it in my car box and I want to get rid of it I'm buying stuff that people really really want I think they really want I might be wrong, but.
33:13.26
youcantcompthis
Yeah, all right I want to do 4 minutes I've got 2 more questions so I want pretty succinct quickfire answers here. So where 2 years post apocalypse summarized to me in in 2 minutes your experience in the last two years in the hobby and.
33:33.76
jono michaels
Guy it's been absolutely crazy. Um, it's so it's a both um sort of told you so I said I collected in the 90 s I saw the drop off in the 90 s um.
33:36.64
youcantcompthis
So crazy. Good crazy bad. Yeah.
33:45.85
youcantcompthis
Um, yeah.
33:49.94
jono michaels
Everybody talks about this bubble. Obviously there's an array of factors of why the boom happens when it happened the perfect storm came together and it created this this huge this huge twister that were all caught in ah and and got ah got caught in. Um.
33:54.62
youcantcompthis
Um, yeah.
34:04.18
youcantcompthis
Yes, yes.
34:06.92
jono michaels
I was happy I got caught and it brought me back into the hobby. Um, it doesn't matter what market you're in it doesn't matter. It's cards housing watches sneakers whenever whenever youre kryptonite is doesn't matter what market you're in. There's always opportunity.
34:18.55
youcantcompthis
Go.
34:24.12
jono michaels
Um, my my my favorite my favorite saying which I read from a a it was a Lynn Fox book was within adversity lies opportunity. So my whole thing is the market's gone down now. But I'm use my reparc my repa's now 20 times better than it was two years ago
34:40.49
youcantcompthis
Um, yeah.
34:43.37
jono michaels
Two years ago crowd I put in a lebron auto a cobior or stepefh I couldn't even put 3 of those in ah a repack of 48 cards right? So now you're getting more bang for your buck. Um I know people ah look at cards and collecting in a different way.
34:47.97
youcantcompthis
Yeah I graved that a hundred percent yeah Yeah
35:01.10
jono michaels
Ah, don't care what anybody says and I've had this discussion with some very high-end collectors people that say they are hobbyists and hobby people you still care what the value of your collection is worth It's like a house you go buy a house. And you're like oh I need 4 bedrooms I've got three kids I love a backyard for them to play in and you know people say it's a home not a house but the end of the day. It's still an investment. It's still an asset you never ever want your assets or an investment to go down. So I've had I've had these conversations people like oh I don't care that the the market's gone down because I collect it for the beauty of the cards I love Michael Jordan I'm buying these cards because they're Michael Jordan cards and ever since I was a kid I was I was. Totally in love with Michael Jordan I said yeah, but do you ever think oh two years ago. My Michael Jordan collection was worth $5000 and now my Michael Jordan collection is worth $2000 and that's where I say it doesn't matter where the market sits if.
36:10.56
youcantcompthis
I Think it does it does it does I mean that does matter it also matters how much you spent and then how much you potentially lost and then also I think it depends on how much you dwell on losses too. You know if you buy into a break How long how many nights is and you and you get nothing back.
36:21.89
jono michaels
With it.
36:29.17
youcantcompthis
How many night does that keep you awake for does it not keep you awake one night or just keep you awake for a week. You know I think depends on your personality type and then also to you need to keep in your mind too. Some collectors. Don't want to be associated with the the dirtiness of buying and selling and the flipping part and and going to breaks. You know they. They separate themselves from us dirty peasants. You know? yeah.
36:51.64
jono michaels
Yeah, know that that's I'm saying like I still think that those people that perceive us as dirty peasants. They're still looking at how much their cars are worth where they're sitting. They're still doing it I've got a perfect example I won't I won't use it. It's It's a friend.
37:05.62
youcantcompthis
Ah, yeah.
37:09.26
jono michaels
He got in just before the boom. Um, he hit in a break of a player I don't I don't want to say who it is because lots of people might know who this person is if I say who it is he hit up. Yeah, he hit he hit a player in a break A very cheap break and um.
37:11.84
youcantcompthis
Um, yeah.
37:18.33
youcantcompthis
No, you don't need to say names that's fine. It's no troubles.
37:28.54
jono michaels
Like oh that's cool. Didn't really know who the player was but it was like 1 of his first autos in the in the hobby and then he went really hard before the boom and this person ended up being the top 3 player in their sport and he ended up having a.
37:31.93
youcantcompthis
Um, yeah, yeah.
37:45.41
jono michaels
Hundreds and hundreds of thousands dollars collection that he had paid 2 or 3 grand for literally like hit the jackpot. He he had the actually absolute dream. Ah, and my my conversations within worlds were like I like.
37:45.96
youcantcompthis
Um, yeah, yeah, which is the dream isn't it of all of all of this. Yeah yeah.
38:02.30
jono michaels
You're gonna sell this now like are you crazy and he was like oh I'm only in it for a couple of grand and he then became entrenched in the hobby and he's like oh ah, but you know this is ah this is collectibles and I'm like you're crazy. You've invested 2 $3000 and you've literally got. Hundreds of thousands of dollars worth of cards here and he's like nat jono you're crazy and then about a year ago you got ah a ridiculous offer from somebody in the us for all these cards. He sold them I'm like but isn't this. This is a hobby. It's an ah like what are you doing.
38:31.57
youcantcompthis
Um, yeah, yeah.
38:41.17
jono michaels
Like I flipped it on him I'm like I told you like you're mad not to take these deals So even in him who was like no, it's a Hobby I don't want to sell it when when when people do see those dollar signs I don't Care. It's not dirty. It's not greedy in the end of the day you say to yourself I've made a good investment. Ah, got lucky in a break I've hit a player that's come from 0 to hero like there's nothing wrong with cashing in on an investment like that's what life is no, you can put that towards your house. You're moreage your kids education another investment like there's nothing wrong with doing that.
39:16.28
youcantcompthis
No I think it's fine and look if I can be honest, you one of the reasons why I do like cards is because it's a hobby that costs money. But then if I do need to get some of that money back one day I can sell some pieces and do you know me so that really eases my. I Have a burden in particular but I do like that aspect of it that it is a little bit Liquid. So I don't really actually understand why people consider it to be yeah, actually that sort of dirtiness confuses me a little bit for me. That's like almost a very british.
39:41.15
jono michaels
Have that stigma.
39:51.23
youcantcompthis
Sort of point of view. A very british perspective of you know, being the the top of the town or that do you know what? I mean that sort of perspective. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, alrighty so in 1 minute what's the next two years gonna look like.
39:56.22
jono michaels
Yeah, being very very pompous I'm not setting my cards. Yeah.
40:07.20
jono michaels
Um, yeah again I was talking about this summer with someone last week how fanatics got in too late um time ah or.
40:09.30
youcantcompthis
Do you think for the hobby.
40:15.56
youcantcompthis
Do you think they overpaid.
40:21.38
jono michaels
We we don't know the optics and the figures but you know they have paid a lot of money for a lot of these licenses. Um Andrew Rububen Andrew Rububen Michael Ruben Michael Rubin is a genius. Everything is touched and his family of touch has turns of gold fanatics is a huge juggerna.
40:24.43
youcantcompthis
Um, yeah.
40:31.62
youcantcompthis
Um, yeah.
40:40.67
jono michaels
I buy all my clothes off fanatics this arrived yesterday my gayness t-shirt from fanatics. Um, they know they shrink they shrink and look but I literally watched it yesterday before I water my little champion ah toggles coming off.
40:45.39
youcantcompthis
Do you find that they don't wash very well though that the prints come off.
40:58.59
jono michaels
It's fit fit.
40:58.74
youcantcompthis
I'm not going to lie to you like I've got a fair bit of fanatic stuff in my closet too. They don't wash that well I find the I find the prince like look at this look how crack this print is you know and if this is the quality that they they make in the cards I'm not.
41:04.27
jono michaels
Um, but.
41:13.28
youcantcompthis
Um, not particularly warmed from from this you know.
41:16.51
jono michaels
I think they'll be all right? Ah that there. Um I think and I'm turning to money again. There's too many people with too much money invested in the hobby. For it to die like it did in the late 90 s where they classify as the junk wax era you know you've got you've got a huge investment funds in the us that have you know, just invested in sports memory beer and cards. Um, you've got a huge amount of people like in the 90 s it was more of a. Ah, kids gain collecting whereas now as more adult strewed investors streood collectors people you know collecting kids players from their their childhood and I don't think the hobby will die. Um I know that you know there were still collectors from the the early 2000 until the boom again in the early 2019 but I just think the sheer amount of people that are into it now. The hobby won't die. Will it strive. You know the cost of living is a huge factor in it.
42:17.58
youcantcompthis
Yeah, and is getting harder too I think that's a thing I feel like maybe in my head I thought inflation might have eased off a little bit more but without going to this too much but we just came back from London Singapore and the states and. The cost of living since I've been back to all those countries was very very noticeable to me in addition to our very weak Australian dollar at the moment. Do you know what? I mean so you're almost like getting like a double whammy you know from my point of view going over there. It was very interesting. Yeah.
42:47.77
jono michaels
Yeah, yeah, you know I'll get a different perspective cards and breaking and repack aren't my my everyday day job. So you know I work in a business where um.
42:56.68
youcantcompthis
Um, yeah.
43:03.98
jono michaels
We we sell once not needs I won't go into that but discretionary spending is something that I I literally look at every day I sell to a lot of retailers across Australia and obviously you know the cost of living is hitting home. It's hitting home for us. You know mortgages bills what have you? um.
43:07.85
youcantcompthis
That's fine. Yeah.
43:17.36
youcantcompthis
Yeah, definitely.
43:23.65
jono michaels
So I definitely think discretionary spending is down. Do I think that the very male dominated ah Hobby of bathol card collecting. Do they hide it from their wives their girlfriends their partners. Yes, correct.
43:40.81
youcantcompthis
That's what your paypal accounts for right? yeah.
43:43.52
jono michaels
But um, a lot of people in the now need to decide you know am I going to go into a break am I going to buy a pack am I going to buy a blaster or am I going to take the kids to the footy or am I going to take the kids to a basketball game or am I going to buy ah a new jersey or you know do I need a new pair of runners. Um. In my perspective you know I'd be spending the money on doing stuff with my kids and and experiences with my kids I know I'm talking against my own side hustle and side business. But the hobby is going to get tough. Um, but you'll you'll see a lot more now and. And the hobby hangout particularly I had ah a booth there and I probably had this is no exaggeration 500 people saying doing a trade whereas um the hobby hangout in March or April was. Ah, can you do a better price on that card or can you do a better price on that jersey the first question and the the most amount of question that's getting was do you want a trade and and you're seeing that a lot more on sales post now on on Facebook pages. You'll see down the bottom trade question Mark Trade and cash question Mark whereas.
44:41.94
youcantcompthis
Yes.
44:51.47
youcantcompthis
Um, yeah.
44:54.47
jono michaels
Eighteen months ago some of these cards would have been like listed have been like so so that's in line actually in nine actually nine actuallys line so I said it is getting tougher um will the hobby thrive probably not will it survive yes, um.
44:58.79
youcantcompthis
Um, yeah.
45:10.12
jono michaels
And then the stuff with fanatics. You know now you're seeing that lebronze signed on with tops. Um, that's going to be a huge motivating factor wimbby. There's not going to be any signed um rookies or Webby and panini product because it's with toppps.
45:22.10
youcantcompthis
Yeah, but he will be in fanatics. Yeah yeah.
45:25.82
jono michaels
We be in fanatics. So I think the first year of the fanatics wemby effects um will be big to does Michael Ru make a huge play for Jordan that would be crazy I ah ah, ah still go in my head they're going to buy upperdeck ah purely for.
45:37.12
youcantcompthis
Um, that's what Adam predicted.
45:44.92
jono michaels
Tiger Gretsky Jordan Serena Williams you're talking about like the goats of the goats of of all the sports. Um, for me, it doesn't make sense for them not to make up. Yeah for them not to make a play at at upper deck.
45:55.89
youcantcompthis
Um, Data City on the shelf. Yeah yeah.
46:02.79
jono michaels
Um, it seems like they've got the motivation to to take over the yeah card and Memorabilia world. So if the if those if those players know I desperately want to tiger woods order at the moment I definitely want to Serena Williams auto at the moment.
46:07.31
youcantcompthis
Yeah, yeah.
46:17.91
youcantcompthis
Um, yeah, yeah.
46:21.29
jono michaels
But some of them at crazy prices because they are an upperdeck and does rububen somehow get them into fanatics make this huge juggernaut and then make it as I said not not not just the surviv period. But but but through that's right.
46:27.51
youcantcompthis
Um, yeah.
46:32.95
youcantcompthis
Um, it's gonna cut you off sorry mate just pause one second hey I'm doing a podcast and close in the door. Big quiet. Please.
46:48.85
youcantcompthis
Sorry about that.
46:50.83
jono michaels
That's right I've got my I've got my doors here clothes and 2 kids tell them to be quiet. It's fine.
46:56.54
youcantcompthis
You desperately want a tiger woods. Autograph.
47:02.86
jono michaels
Yeah, I'm so my original love was memorabilia I Love memorabilia. Um, so so mom. Yeah.
47:05.38
youcantcompthis
Right? I don't have much time for memorabilia. It's too big takes up too much space. Yeah.
47:17.44
jono michaels
Long story might start with afl memory. Yeah turn into Mba memory. Yeah um I do have a stupid amount I've been clearing a little bit on on the pages the last three days which I haven't done for a long long time. Um.
47:30.81
youcantcompthis
Um, yeah.
47:33.18
jono michaels
But yeah, so I've got a nice Tiger Woods Upperdeck Memorabilia piece sitting in my office. Um I like memorabilia because it's on show I can see it every day I walk into my office and I've got a.
47:43.90
youcantcompthis
Yeah.
47:46.93
jono michaels
Got a Jordan Wings poster I've got my little tiger signpiece a little Jordan signpiece I've got a shame war side piece. Um in my office of the find I've convinced my wife sounds sad but we do have some ah ba jerseys hanging in our bedroom as we speak.
47:50.80
youcantcompthis
Yeah.
48:01.53
youcantcompthis
How did you convince your wife that.
48:05.26
jono michaels
Um, you're you're been to my house. You've seen that we've got a ah basketball loving family but but basketball is at the the core of our our ah family. Ah, my wife is ah.
48:09.29
youcantcompthis
Okay, okay, yeah, fair enough. Yeah yeah, she enjoys basketball too. Yeah, that is I suppose that's fair, yeah chase.
48:20.98
jono michaels
Plays bath or watches bath on she's ah she sorts my brakes for me. She's ah ah um I on ah im a lucky man batting above my average by a long long way. Um, so yeah memorabilia Yeah Tiger Woods for me is.
48:27.37
youcantcompthis
You are the luckiest man on Earth by the sounds of this.
48:40.55
jono michaels
I'm not I'm not a massive golf fair as in like I watch the majors I'm not like following it throughout the year like a lot of us like at the tennis of the moment I guess with australian open.
48:48.65
youcantcompthis
But you can appreciate greatness when you see it I think that's how I feel about Tiger and I can't stand golf. You know.
48:55.37
jono michaels
Yeah, so so 1 about one of the members of mailbound breaks he was he was showing me some tiger that he was he was chasing I'm like you know what I actually want to get a piece from all the people that I classify as the goats like I've got a Jordan piece.
49:10.64
youcantcompthis
Yeah.
49:15.31
jono michaels
And he's not the great book I've got my kobe piece I've got my lebron piece. That's that's marked off. Um, so I've got to I've got a signed upperdeck piece. It's um Jordan Gridsky and
49:16.22
youcantcompthis
Yeah, have you go to gretzky then.
49:35.63
jono michaels
I've gone brain dead Jordan Gretsky I'll send you a photo over finish the podcast I've got to remember a big but I got so much memory me they put away. It's stupid how I put out some of it as I said the last couple of days I don't have a gred ski card. So I do want to match a card to to um to my memory period pieces and so eventually I'll get around to getting a kretsky piece. Um, and and yeah, so the next um I hit list is.
50:02.54
youcantcompthis
Yeah.
50:11.78
jono michaels
Um, a yeah ah tiger woods and then I want to pick up something of Roger Federer so to Jock Ah Jockovic for me is like a ah his lebron I admire how good he is.
50:18.80
youcantcompthis
Okay.
50:28.85
youcantcompthis
Yep.
50:29.10
jono michaels
I Understand why people might call in the goat. But for me federists feder is still the goat in the tennis game. Um, so yeah I will eventually get around to it. But um, yeah, going going.
50:33.60
youcantcompthis
Yes.
50:44.83
jono michaels
Baptches of things yet memorabilia is my number one. Love yep.
50:46.72
youcantcompthis
So just going back to fanatics for 2 seconds I actually think they paid a lot for the licensing and you could definitely make the argument that they overpaid for it. The only thing that and again we'll talk about this last week on the show. They're also doing the going into the gambling. Arena and so this is the part where I think they're most likely going to succeed out of all of this. You know how much does gambling and sports cards. Go hand in hand and I think there's a ah, pretty big argument to say that those things are pretty closely related in some way.
51:07.45
jono michaels
Um, yeah.
51:25.83
youcantcompthis
And I prefer to gamble on sports cards and gamble on sports that that's just my two cents
51:36.40
jono michaels
ah ah I'm with you. My friends can't fathom so I used to play poker professionally used to still play but now to 2 mates played poker professionally.
51:40.42
youcantcompthis
So yeah.
51:48.72
jono michaels
Gonna sound like a degenerater I the casino every single day for 6 years I was traveling in the world Vegas Monte Carlo playing poker professionally love sports never had the itch to gamble on sports and my friends are like you're obsessed with sport. You're obsessed with poker like.
51:51.25
youcantcompthis
Have right.
52:01.37
youcantcompthis
Yep.
52:06.64
jono michaels
Come hand in hand. But I understand it's the same demographic but I would much refer to gamble on buying a card like I get enough enjoyment watching a basketball game I don't need to have Jason Taineham at seven and a half rebounds plus
52:18.27
youcantcompthis
Yes.
52:21.55
jono michaels
I'm happy just to say oh my God that was an unbelievable game hack was that.
52:23.34
youcantcompthis
Well, but where I'm going with this I just wonder if they meld the 2 together in such a way that they essentially bring the two groups in together. So yeah.
52:33.94
jono michaels
Well, that's what I'm saying normally the the Gambler slash collector is a very similar demographic. So once they've captivated the audience of the cars and they've got the gambling aspect.
52:42.51
youcantcompthis
Um, yeah.
52:48.13
jono michaels
And then they've got all these other you know they're getting all these guys now at the moment to break for them on whatnot. They've obviously got a bigger play in their minds. Um, you know everyone's got their their theories of what it's going to be and how they're going to make it all connect and click together. But as I said, um.
52:58.30
youcantcompthis
Definitely.
53:02.71
youcantcompthis
Yeah, that's right, yeah and they've spoken about growing it and I think that's maybe where they're going to do so much better than pinnis like other than revolutionizing.
53:07.18
jono michaels
They're very smart people. They've got very smart people working for them.
53:21.25
youcantcompthis
Quite a number of aspects in the hobby I don't think they've done enough advertising or done enough to you know, bring people together and I think that's the part where fanatics is going to change it and so look actually for me the next two years I don't feel too stressed about it all I actually think it's going to keep you know growing you know I think the question is is what are the prices going to look like I think that's the thing that you know potentially could keep changing. But if the prices do go down a bit well then actually sometimes I don't mind that I think you're having more affordable buy-ins I don't actually don't think it's like the worst thing in the world. So you know that's the part. Yeah that's the part that I like because I think.
53:56.64
jono michaels
Ah, it's an amazing thing.
54:00.72
youcantcompthis
The part that I don't really like about the hobby at the moment and particularly in the last you know few years. It's just been so hard to sit down and open a hobby box like in the last few years how many times have I done that maybe once or or twice do you know what? I mean because it's just.
54:17.49
jono michaels
Yeah, know, um I totally get it I you know I sit there and I I've opened some boxes with my boys like I've got some young kids at a obsessive bus or because of me obsessed with cars now and that's a thing that we do on their birthdays.
54:20.63
youcantcompthis
Yeah.
54:25.81
youcantcompthis
Um, yeah.
54:30.23
youcantcompthis
Um, yeah.
54:34.70
jono michaels
That's what they asked for. They asked for a Boxt of basketball cards. They've grown to Pokemon I don't understand pokemon but that they're going to pokemon a little bit and that's they loved? Yeah but for me to to pitch a cartoon on a piece of cardboard which I find hard to understand.
54:41.60
youcantcompthis
Look I think Pokemon is a lot more kid friendly man.
54:49.77
youcantcompthis
Yeah, yeah, but my dad just says it's picture of you know men on Cardboard you know like ah.
54:53.94
jono michaels
Yeah I go that but but but yeah, saying like like we all have different budgets for cars etc. You know yours might be higher than mine. Mine might be higher than the next person but you know ah opening Hobby boxes yourself.
55:01.14
youcantcompthis
Um, yeah, yeah.
55:11.37
jono michaels
Is quite unattainable. The price they were and that's why one of the factors. Why brakes went crazy as well. You know you're paying one thirtieth of the price and and still having that same enjoyment factor and still having that same thrill and your heart rate gets going a little bit but now yeah fanatics I actually wrote an email to fanatics I've got a couple of contacts and fanatics and ah.
55:13.99
youcantcompthis
Yeah, definitely. Yeah yeah, yeah.
55:27.59
youcantcompthis
Um, okay yeah.
55:30.19
jono michaels
I'm sure they're not going to take my advice on board. But I what's the right word I went out I begged them but I pleaded with them to get rid of redemptions if you don't have the auto on Hand don't put that player in that set.
55:40.81
youcantcompthis
Um, yeah.
55:48.22
jono michaels
If you know you're not going to have that player signing. Don't do it because again I know that's a whole different story but the redemption the the fact that somebody can say say you buy a box forget a break you go and buy a box for $1000 and you hit a lucca redemption and you're you're over the moon I've hit Luca I've hit the baby goat. Ah, that's what I wanted I love luca I've got him and then after one hundred and eighty days you get a message would do you like some panini points or would you like a replacement sure I like a replacement but with another luca please on. Ah sorry we don't have any Lucas on hand at the moment.
56:05.88
youcantcompthis
Yeah. Yeah.
56:24.36
jono michaels
And all of a sudden you get a white box of stiff. Awesome. It's a stiff auto but a stamped white box one and one on the back I don't want that I want my Lucrta forty nine that I've hited my pack that I've now got attachment to because I hit that in a pack I can then a break. It's of course it matters.
56:38.37
youcantcompthis
Yeah, and that does matter. Yeah yeah.
56:43.87
jono michaels
So I've actually sent a ah couple of emails and had responses to saying? Thank you for your input and we'll we'll pass on your information but pleaded for them to ah I'm not saying it's Panini's fault but look at the.
56:50.88
youcantcompthis
Yeah.
56:59.40
jono michaels
The feedback that the panini have had from collectors and try and improve Well I'm sure that they will be trying to do that but try and improve on on the bug bearars of collectors of the things that they hate that currently come out of panini.
57:13.68
youcantcompthis
I think in a perfect world. There wouldn't be redemptions but I think to keep product coming out on a timeline that's relatively timely and keeping in mind we're already what twelve months behind on release dates already and we still have redemptions.
57:25.92
jono michaels
That that we still have redemptions prop late but you look at stuff like I understand asking the players to sign they're signing ridiculous amounts of orders. No, we're not talking about a hundred autos.
57:37.22
youcantcompthis
Which they agreed to hang on a second they agreed to that though, that's not like you know? yeah.
57:43.84
jono michaels
No, but what I what I'm saying is that that they managed to get next day autos right? If they autos for me is a huge chase. Um, first ever auto when you've been you know signed and and pit to that Mba Team 2 years
57:49.39
youcantcompthis
Um, yeah.
57:55.34
youcantcompthis
So they were taken out of the product for 2 years and now they're they're back. Are they? yeah.
58:01.41
jono michaels
Because of covered they're back. Yeah, oh so sorry they're taking out of the prop for a year sorry a year um 2021 there was no next day orders um but like stuff like that is like say for example, lemelo who though like all these murmurings she's never going to sign.
58:09.27
youcantcompthis
Yes.
58:20.99
jono michaels
And people were were clamoring to pick up his like flawless collegiate autos which were by the way full lalllo ball I still love them by the way. Um, and people were like ah fanatics brought out like signed Lamelo Jerseys there was only 25 of them mate and everyone's like oh.
58:28.26
youcantcompthis
Yeah.
58:39.62
jono michaels
<unk>ve got to get that Jersey First All it's signed full theelo ball and he's never going to sign cards right? So My whole thing is is if panini had doubts that he was ever going to sign Cards. It's fraudulent for them to put in a redemption with aelo ball and then offer ah sorry we don't have any melo ball card signed at the moment. Can offer you a different player right? and I've had so many emails back and forth with panini about that saying like I know they don't care but at the time that redemption is worth $1500 So I want a car back that is worth $1500 and.
59:12.61
youcantcompthis
Yeah.
59:16.40
jono michaels
If you're not going to give me a lamelo happy to take a different lameo. But if you don't have that I want the ability to choose which player I want like you're selling a product with something in it that you're not guaranteeing that I can ever get back. Which for me is not the right thing. So I'm hoping.
59:27.40
youcantcompthis
Yeah, no, it's definitely bad business practice. But I think the example of Lamelo Baldo that was us a little bit more complicated because if my memory serves me correctly. He had a contract he signed in prism draft.
59:37.94
jono michaels
Um.
59:45.80
youcantcompthis
And then he disputed that his contract went further than that his understanding or his interpretation of the contract was it was only for prism draft. It wasn't for prism and Mba and then they renegotiated his deal and then but that took them more than twelve months to ratify and then he then did start signing and and most of it if not all of it got signed but there was some replacements taken up.
01:00:13.90
jono michaels
But not just 1 example even the anas for example, so there was just a huge batch couple of months ago they got release from the yarnis but he hadn't signed for a good good 3 years
01:00:23.50
youcantcompthis
I feel like I'm a paniti defender hang on a second yanes was holding onto cards and and held all of his one of ones and then collectors literally had to write him letters to explain to him the impact and the significance of you know what he was and wasn't doing like.
01:00:31.10
jono michaels
He's kicked a lot of is one of once.
01:00:42.81
youcantcompthis
You know, actually and this is part of the problem. The athletes aren't fulfilling their end of the contract. You know they they so they do sign contracts with pinini but then and this is only 2 athletes that you're talking about but Jordan was well known for that he would go to signing set sessions. He would have an agreement lot. You would get tired after half an hour and say ah I'm going to the golf course now and then Kobe always wanted to be like Jordan and did very similar practices. You know it's.
01:01:09.73
jono michaels
I know but what what I'm saying is if you're selling a product and you forget what the market price is on boxes because a market price and actual normal RRp on prices which a lot of clutches don't know is correct completely different right? You know the if if I was to tell.
01:01:20.60
youcantcompthis
Is not set by panini. Yeah yeah.
01:01:28.36
jono michaels
Not you? but some of our listeners and may not know the wholesale prices of a box of nt or flawless. You would be golf smack and 4 on the floor and say I'll have twenty cases of that place. But what I'm saying is is if you're selling a product and in the checklist you have a set of players that are in.
01:01:36.47
youcantcompthis
Um, yeah.
01:01:46.67
jono michaels
Let's use noir. For example, we've got the sneaker spotlight in this. We've got the spotlight signatures in this. We've got the shadowbox ah autos in this and then there is a chance that you can physically hit that redemption and never receive that card whether it be the owner Some of it is on the player.
01:02:00.19
youcantcompthis
Yes.
01:02:04.96
jono michaels
So it is on panini for from my point of view. That's just not right. It's like buying it. It's like buy but buying a house and the carpet's included and then you move in nine months three months later where's the carpet I paid for the carpet.
01:02:15.51
youcantcompthis
No I agree with you 100% by the way. But what I'm trying to say to is I think I think panini has contracts with these people and for whatever reasons they can't they either can't organize the logistics appropriately and whether that's. Shipping and transport or whether that's getting the cards printed and then also too they can't with they can't make sure that the athletes sign them. So the big one for me was Darren so I'd click Darren Fox right there was videos of Darren Fox signing autographs and I am not joking you. He was like flipping them.
01:02:45.44
jono michaels
Um, yeah.
01:02:53.42
youcantcompthis
And they were spinning through the air and landing on the corners right? So then there's a lot of de and Fox stuff that came out of boxes and very badly damaged. You know you wouldn't even send it off to to pa not even like blindfreed me that just had like a terrible sub comeback and so that was the same thing. Literally fans were writing him letters saying like please men you know, look after your cards a bit better. So I think that is part of it. The real question for me is like how do you fix this problem because I don't I don't ever see them having products without redemptions.
01:03:24.45
jono michaels
For that.
01:03:31.55
youcantcompthis
I Know Fanatics don't want to do it but I can almost bet you anything that you would like there's going to be redemptions in that because that's just you have that very idealistic you know Honeymoon Perspective. You know when you get into the business but I don't I don't think that's how it's going to you know pan out but also too what are they going to do take them to court and litigate These guys. You know they want to keep them on you know around to really yeah, right? and I don't think that's part of the problem like this. They're literally hamstrung. What can you do to these guys other than paid them above their you know a green value to come back and and that's what exactly what happened with the mellow you know.
01:03:53.77
jono michaels
Good terms.
01:04:08.30
jono michaels
I've got a feeling fanatics are gonna as you said whether it be ah, a payment thing. A financial thing I've I've got I've got I've got a thing in my head which I've read. Ah I've so in my suggestion to fanatics.
01:04:13.10
youcantcompthis
It has to be money. It has to be money they have to double the fail triple the fate. That's the yeah yeah.
01:04:24.95
jono michaels
Ah I'll send you the email I basically said they need fanatics need to contact the players association and they need to say to the players we need. We're going to the Dallas mavericks today and every player must be in attendance and we're going to sit there for 12 hours and we are going to sign 2000 autographs each 3000? Whatever the number they need is no no, they're gonna have the cards ready I'm in manufacturing it is not hard to manufacture.
01:04:50.60
youcantcompthis
So then they're all stickers.
01:05:02.78
jono michaels
Cards. It is not a hard process right? if they sit there if fanatics hopefully have their shit together excuse my french right? and ah after a week of a basketball season. They can have.
01:05:10.45
youcantcompthis
Um, yeah.
01:05:21.92
jono michaels
Hundred a thousand different graphics of every player. It's not half them to take photos right? correct ah presume fanatics have already start to work out what their sets are going to be called. You know what their equivalent of the flaws is gonna be what their equivalent of the prism is going to be what the equivalent of the workhopop is gonna be correct right.
01:05:23.41
youcantcompthis
Yeah, definitely yeah and there's a lot of yeah, definitely that's that's fine I'm okay with that. Yeah.
01:05:36.18
youcantcompthis
I think they do plan out a couple years ahead yeah definitely yeah agreed. Yeah.
01:05:41.71
jono michaels
And they've already got the graphics going for this what that set's going to look like what the what the case sets are going to look like and then they get they get in there first week of the Mba season. You know they can get a photo in there a way Jersey their home jersey maybe a city addition jersey whatever it is. They've got.
01:05:59.52
youcantcompthis
Yeah.
01:05:59.93
jono michaels
Different Jerseys different looks so all the cards that aren't gameworn patch cards can literally be designed implemented in a very short period of time and manufactured in a short period of time right? So imagine all those cards and then. Even after the first week they they they have an agreement with all the teams we're getting every jersey that they've worn for the first 5 games.
01:06:26.20
youcantcompthis
But that means you need the entire year of cards printed in a week like at.
01:06:31.20
jono michaels
No, you don't need to get a prison in a week because because there's a release schedule. Oh but yeah, but but but yeah, but but but not a week say say after say say a week. They've got all the graphics done.
01:06:35.21
youcantcompthis
But you said you want all the athletes to sit down and sign everything for 12 hours
01:06:47.20
jono michaels
Graphic's already done. They just need to play as photos and images we're in the nba uniform right're we're still getting casts from panini now people are wearing Knicks Jerseys and they've been playing for the pool for 2 years right so so you you get.
01:06:49.10
youcantcompthis
Yeah, yeah.
01:07:00.36
jono michaels
Those graphics done the template of the card is already made the player's name's already in there the stats already on the back etc pop it in and you go to the manufacturer wherever finances are decide to manufacturer whether it be in us or China wherever it is.
01:07:04.42
youcantcompthis
Um, yeah.
01:07:18.32
jono michaels
They can mass produce those sets and put them into the packets and boxes and well they won't be the packets yet that just print the cards and get them into the players in a very very very very very short period of time. This is my background manufacturing and importing is my is my background.
01:07:24.45
youcantcompthis
Yeah I yeah.
01:07:30.45
youcantcompthis
Okay.
01:07:37.00
jono michaels
They then go say after a month six weeks because none of the prompt are getting released close to the start of the Nba season anyway and say today we were the dance Maverick we are sitting here and we are signing these cards and Fanati drove with people I saw Luka Yesterday signing cards and here that she had a person placecing the card in front room.
01:07:40.70
youcantcompthis
Um, sure. Yeah.
01:07:51.95
youcantcompthis
Yeah, yeah, yeah, that's right, That's right.
01:07:57.17
jono michaels
Signing next place in the caf frame website right? So so it's it's fanatics keeping integrity of the cards. Not a player sitting there like your dron Fox example throwing the cards around or doing what mishandling them getting the rec corners. Of course it's gonna be damaged sometimes it's gonna happen right? but.
01:08:13.70
youcantcompthis
Definitely definitely. Yeah.
01:08:15.92
jono michaels
But they need to make a way that they're investing all this money they want. They want the clutches to stay. They want the investors to stay and they need to do everything possible to get propped out on time with all the autos in there in good condition and we're not waiting for.
01:08:21.85
youcantcompthis
Um, yeah.
01:08:33.46
jono michaels
The 24 25 season for the 23 24 immacular impeccable and flaws be released.
01:08:42.39
youcantcompthis
Ah I agree a hundred percent by the way with what you're saying I just think there must be a reason why they're a year behind the logistics of you know, getting all this done I'm assuming is a bit more difficult than perhaps you're portraying I'm trying to say this in the most pc way possible right.
01:08:58.73
jono michaels
I'm I'm telling you like like but I'm almost like I know everything this is literally my market importing manufacturing this where I've done a daily basis for the last twenty years and and I've looked into this.
01:08:58.77
youcantcompthis
Yeah.
01:09:02.12
youcantcompthis
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, so.
01:09:13.56
jono michaels
I may have looked in the last year into to manufacturing cars for another sport trying to get a license that didn't happen. Um, but um, it's an australian sport. Don't want to ruffle any feathers but but but but.
01:09:21.33
youcantcompthis
Okay, can you say what sport it was okay na and less. We don't need controversy on this. Ah yeah.
01:09:31.71
jono michaels
Yeah, we we we just mean ah a mean a mate looked at um, potentially trying to acquire a license for for an australian sport and and how manufacturing would work and and. And we sat down with another australian manufacturer who like helped us a fair bid and told us how he he did things and they've got ah the the person we spoke to has a pretty not not as big as panini. You know it's only a australian sport but has ah a pretty far reach selling. thousands and tens of thousands hundreds of thousands of boxes actually and how quickly they turn it are over. Um, it's not It's not as difficult as you can um as you think and when you're a company of panini size when you've got the resource of their size when you've got the staff numbers of their size. Um.
01:10:05.20
youcantcompthis
Yes.
01:10:20.47
jono michaels
Um, I'm not down playing. It is a lot of work. But if if there are botses slowing at marker price of again, nothing they can control but 10 $15000 um I don't want to hit a redemption of of lucre in flaws.
01:10:27.35
youcantcompthis
Yeah, yeah.
01:10:37.77
youcantcompthis
No, no, we we are definitely in agreeance. So on that I'm definitely hey I I'll just um I'll throw this into the mess because I think this is gonna be an interesting point if they're now twelve months behind what if fanatics comes into this space very well prepared as let's just say.
01:10:38.20
jono michaels
Ah, don't want to? yeah.
01:10:54.56
youcantcompthis
They took your email and used it as a bible he added it to the manifesto he like did like a version 2 and he put the John Omichaels email is like in the appendix right? Yeah, that's right? So you're you're now in the manifesto and is it possible. We're going to be seeing fanatics releases.
01:11:04.69
jono michaels
It's a fidity head office as we speak on their whiteboard. Yep.
01:11:14.41
youcantcompthis
At the same time as pani because there is gonna be like or are we just gonna lose twelve months of products because Forine Penini isn't gonna be able to release products anymore. Do you know what? I'm talking about here. Yeah.
01:11:26.13
jono michaels
Yes, so so I had the exact a lot of these conversations you're bringing up like I've had them before with people. So I said to somebody imagine I know where what the exact date is ah January Twenty Two Thousand and Twenty five
01:11:30.50
youcantcompthis
Sure.
01:11:40.76
youcantcompthis
Um, yeah, yeah.
01:11:42.79
jono michaels
<unk>tics take over so I had I said what could happen is is in December Two Thousand and Twenty Four panini's last ever release. Whatever it is a macular could be a. 2 year difference compared to the release from the fanatics brings out so does fanatics backdate it because they want to make sure the the rookie class of 23 twenty four or 24 25 isn't missed out or is it literally as you said like a lull and there's this whole year of cards. Don't get released I've got a feeling in the fanatics. Whatever products aren't released what year there'll there'll be some products of some sort but it might not be the volume There are so many sets of the moment coming out of panini whereas because I presume fanatics aren't going to have the same brands. And now prison and I'm now flawless and not gonna have whatever it is.
01:12:40.35
youcantcompthis
Well, they've got Topps Chrome for prisms I feel like that's pretty well covered.
01:12:44.53
jono michaels
Know but what what I'm saying is because they're going to be different brands. You're not going to say oh fanatics aren't bringing out a 23 24 prism because you'll say panin is only releases for that 23 24 season or 20 whenever the the contract is.
01:13:00.69
youcantcompthis
Um, yeah.
01:13:03.34
jono michaels
Is x amount of sets and I think that panenial have this mad rush where they'll be like a release every 2 to three weeks it was it was actually planned for now as in if you look at the release schedule.
01:13:11.16
youcantcompthis
Yeah.
01:13:19.30
jono michaels
There was originally there was a six-week period from the middle of December until the end of January now where there was supposed to be immacular flawless origins court kings.
01:13:34.60
youcantcompthis
I think that's now February March looks insane doesn't it.
01:13:37.20
jono michaels
Yeah prism retail. Um, so that was all plusstered now and a lot of collectors are like well I'm not gonna be able to buy all those boxes in that short period of time especially around Christmas time.
01:13:54.40
youcantcompthis
Yeah.
01:13:56.20
jono michaels
You know Christmas back school in Australia you know and there there are a lot of expenses for families. Um, and and I was looking at and when I originally saw flaws being released on the twenty seventh of December I'm like that is the worst time ever to drop the highest m product in the game. Forget about eminence because that only happens every few years. Um, literally when are people the most cash for directly after Christmas whether it be Christmas gifts holidays. Whatever it is and then when I originally saw they originally pushed a back to end of January and now it's coming out in.
01:14:21.30
youcantcompthis
Yeah, yeah.
01:14:35.10
jono michaels
March at the moment for memory flawless. But there was that huge cluster and and I said to some mates I'm like that cluster which we're always talking about where panini are going to try and just push out everything possible until their their contract's over.
01:14:48.90
youcantcompthis
Yes.
01:14:51.80
jono michaels
Um, that was like I thought this is the start of it now look at this. There's 6 prices being released in six weeks which is madness. They're still a year behind but I feel like that that cluster is going to become even bigger by the time that contract ends they're just going to throw everything at you.
01:14:57.38
youcantcompthis
Um, but there's still a year behind.
01:15:02.99
youcantcompthis
Yeah, because if they're going to essentially do 2 years of product in 1 year yeah
01:15:11.75
jono michaels
You could literally have like twos of prison being released within four months of each other.
01:15:14.80
youcantcompthis
And and I mean if they can actually achieve that that will probably go to your point of what you're saying before it's not that difficult to to do these. You know large volumes of production. But I think what I would be worried about is redemptions is going to be you know in these products like there's no way they could do that.
01:15:22.24
jono michaels
Um, you can't do it if.
01:15:33.80
youcantcompthis
2 years in 1 and get them on card signed and then just the quality control like obviously just to give some context to this I just got a back a psa sub today that was from prism retail and I didn't get a single ten so I'm very. Right now. What I'm thinking about is how is the quality of all this stuff going to be like if they're going to be pumping out this stuff like the quality control you know is not going to be there. Yep.
01:16:00.94
jono michaels
Yeah, well there's so much so many things we quality control and there's so many other stories like I always have these conversations I know you said for me to give you a 1 minute explanation of the of this. Um you know like I'm always seeing you like stuff like higher end product like. No ah flawless and nt when it comes to the box and none of it's protected and you know you're trying to get you I'm turning the box upside down on my screen I want anyone to so what cards are coming out and I've got no doubt in my mind that when I'll use. No r for example, which have you know. Ah, known to have very bad corners and whenever you see a car for sale. It will be like typical noir widening because you know it's a small box which comes in a box when it gets shipped from us I'm just using a stray for example, gets shipped from the state to Australia to a retail store to a breaker. Then you're getting the cards out this. Why is's gonna be happening so again I've got all these ideas of how that can stop that you know why don't they make every card in high-end product in a 1 touch already put it in ah in a a sleeve and a top loader and then a fanatics stick off when fanatics take over. You know when you open a flawless case. You know how excited you are to already get that slabed card. So I'm thinking like when you're bringing out a product that's high-end and whatever that high-end product is going to be for fanatics. Why don't they already slab those cards like an in case like a one- on- one and you still get bad. You know back condition cards in those products.
01:17:37.90
jono michaels
But much less than you get in in other products.
01:17:38.23
youcantcompthis
So I think to answer that question specifically my understanding is flawless is one of the few products now that is handpacked whereas noir court Kings Blah Blah blood that's machine packed I think that's the difference between those.
01:17:54.78
jono michaels
Yeah I understand the ah no disregard to corkings. But what that's classified as a lower hobby product. But if ah, whatever the version of Noah whatever the version of and nt whatever the version of flawless that fanatics are going to come out with why not have them hamact you're investing.
01:17:56.34
youcantcompthis
Yeah. Yes, So yes, so.
01:18:12.65
jono michaels
So much money into these licenses and these contracts you want the consumer to be happy. You want the consumer to keep up buying a product.
01:18:17.68
youcantcompthis
What would the cost difference be between a machine packing it and a human it would have to be astronomical. So so because we're talking about millions of packets like we're not talking you know.
01:18:24.57
jono michaels
Ah, depends where you're getting it packed what why does it? Ah the the base wage in the us isn't that high. But but let's face the facts. Um, if you can get a. A production line I know if you've ever seen. Do you follow fanatics on Instagram okay, probably the same they actually so they go around their warehouse and they show how their orders get packed.
01:18:47.35
youcantcompthis
On Twitter I do not on insta. Yeah.
01:18:57.37
youcantcompthis
Um, yeah.
01:18:59.51
jono michaels
And they go around they asking the stuff you know, look what's your favorite Jersey. What's your favorite autograph piece that we sell and and these are ah orders that are getting hand packed. You know I buy this one t on for on on phoneatics. It is getting hand packed.
01:19:13.68
youcantcompthis
Yeah.
01:19:16.58
jono michaels
Um, it's not like you know I've been to some warehouses from my other business where it's all computer robots packing you know you could go online and watch how the supermarkets pack their online orders. It's crazy so fanatics are already doing this with their clothing inventory and for those of you that haven't been on fanatics website go on there. You're talking about. Tens and tens of thousands of skews across every sport imaginable and every college team imaginable and and I'm a bigger guy I like fanatic fanatics have have big sizes and I wrote to them once and I said listen I got ah a t-shirt going back to your quality control where the print was. Pretty offskew and they're like oh we actually handprint all not all a lot of the bigger sizes so they'll have blanks blank t's in black and then they will I'm not saying this one this one's a champion 1 but some of the fanatics branded ones. They physically hand print that t-shirt and I'm like going back to the how can they hand print that t-shirt and sell me that that college t-shirt for 1499 us I like they've got to pay for the t-shirt someone goes and picks that t-shirt in my four excel they then go and.
01:20:24.24
youcantcompthis
Yep.
01:20:31.81
jono michaels
Print the print on the taser put in the plasticy bag a machine hate seals it and they ship it to me.
01:20:37.16
youcantcompthis
Yeah I think they're the Amazon of clothes and sports memorabilia where they're just doing so much volume that you know they're making money in the aggregate and now if they're making money with sports gambling. I think all that's as long as they've got the monopoly I think all of that stuff just kind of evens out. And yeah.
01:21:01.57
jono michaels
Know let let's let's hope they put that that that care and handle into ah our sports cards. Um, and I said I'd love to see all high end product come in 1 touches or sleeves and toploaders. It is sealed where.
01:21:04.53
youcantcompthis
Yes.
01:21:12.93
youcantcompthis
Young people.
01:21:17.47
jono michaels
Not not even for for the value just for the aesthetics. Um know I've hit I've hit some beautiful cards for for customers I've hit some beautiful cards myself that you just look at them and you're like I'm so bummed for them like it's over my card. Your card. You'll hit the card and I want that card to be not a perfect condition but just like good condition for you. You'll put your harder and money into a break and I want you to have the hit a great card or your pc player. You've picked up, you've bought that 10 minute and you're chasing that Halley Burden card and you've hit a like ah it's got 4 of the worst corners you've ever seen in your life in a higher noah product. It's gut wrenching.
01:21:58.54
youcantcompthis
Yeah, yeah, it is. It's yeah it is gut wrenching I think that's the best way to say? Yeah, all right final thoughts. What do you got? What do you got for me. What?? What's your final thoughts.
01:22:12.10
jono michaels
Let's go on what or I'd got for you. Um, everybody that listen to ah to Russell and Adam tuned in I I tune in a lot.
01:22:28.17
youcantcompthis
Ah, you do You are definitely one of our larger supporters. So thank you so much? yeah.
01:22:28.76
jono michaels
Get into the get in the get in the comments section. Um collect to like don't that other people's sway who collect what you collect what you like it's like anything in life. We all have different tastes for all the same would be boring. Um. Yes, it is a hobby don't overspend keep within your mains. Um, if you've got kids get your kids into the Hobby.. It's so much fun doing that stuff with your kids ripping packs with your kids is literally.
01:22:59.40
youcantcompthis
Yeah, yeah.
01:23:08.39
jono michaels
I've been very privileged enough through the last three years of breaking I've opened thousands of boxes of the best product possible I still get the most enjoyment of opening a packet prism retail with my sons and seeing them hit a steph curry base which they think is like the best thing of all time and they.
01:23:25.15
youcantcompthis
Um, yeah, ah.
01:23:26.54
jono michaels
Dad could I take a one touch on Chuck it in a one but they want to put a mail man sticker on ah I'm like do it I still have the most fun doing that stuff. It brings me back to my childhood and you know we wish I could have done that with my dad but he he wasn't into basketball cards. Um.
01:23:45.97
jono michaels
Watch basketball. Ah if you can't afford breaks breakers still love you jumping on in the comments section and discussing the the games that happened today how you hit 33 s and what do you think of Tatum's you know, playoff performances can jalem brown go left like like we.
01:23:52.17
youcantcompthis
Um, yeah.
01:24:05.61
jono michaels
We all love basketball. We have all the same things in common whether we bath whatever it is Nfl a or whatever, whatever you collect? Um, don't don't be ashamed to show off your pc if they are $5 cards. You know lots of people like write say oh not the biggest hit but my biggest card in my collection. Like that's awesome like it's not a sort of bad thing that your best card's a $50 card or a $5 card or a $10 card.
01:24:30.60
youcantcompthis
I think my favorite Instagram account accounts at the moment just due to it just putting up and I'm saying this in the kindest way possible. Very average cards and I love that because they've taken the time to like get it out of the collection photograph it put it up and to be honest, they're the ones that I share the most on our Instagram page I really. Yes, now. Yeah.
01:24:51.70
jono michaels
Yeah, that's I'm saying that there's nothing wrong with it collect what you like within your means don't overstretch love the hobby love the game. Um. But you sell cards. Don't try and tell me that you paid eighteen hundred months for it in 2019? Um, get get with the times I understand that people don't like losing money but um and the the biggest thing I have is I see lots and lots of people write to me.
01:25:10.28
youcantcompthis
Yes.
01:25:19.51
jono michaels
Ah, people I've never spoken to before saying how come a lot of your cards selling sales and mine don't be realistic with what you've got be realistic of where the market is at the time same with the Hobby hangout.
01:25:32.53
youcantcompthis
I think if you're a regular seller though that helps you because there's some bio confidencefi there I think you know people that sort of pop up willy- Nily if you don't know the name you don't know who they are I'm less likely to spend that send that person 50 or $100 I think that's part of it.
01:25:50.50
jono michaels
No I get that but but I also see guys. Ah I've never spoken to privately. But I've seen them post plenty of sales before and they're like Jono how come at the moment I'm doing these steels of the day. How come your steals of the day some of them sell in 2 minutes and
01:25:51.49
youcantcompthis
Yeah.
01:26:06.52
jono michaels
I've got a similar card. It's not signing I'm like well yours up at fifteen hundred bucks a mine's up at $1000 they comped around 1100 up a mine a hundred I understand you may not want to lose you made a paid 2 ground for that card. You already sell you to $500 loss. But um, sometimes it's just easier to cut your losses and then if you want to reinvest in another card. You're then buying and selling in the same market where you're not going to have that huge differential in price. Um, you know when you're buying the 2019 market and so in the 2024 market. It's a completely different market. So if you want it.
01:26:33.22
youcantcompthis
Yeah.
01:26:40.15
youcantcompthis
It it is two thousand and twenty four hours and that sounds weird when you say that? Yeah yep.
01:26:44.18
jono michaels
Correct. So so selling the market seller prices and in the end of the day. The easiest transaction you'll ever make is a win-win for everyone. Um I just made a issue. Well, what's a pretty huge trade in the Australia market with somebody for a lebron jones ah pa 10 Topps Chrome and never made a tradey with this guy before set him on the pages and we literally got a deal done within 20 minutes of talking. And I wrote to him I'm like makete that it's like a win-win for everyone. We both priced our cards right? You got what you wanted I got what I I got some liquid cards which I wanted and um, we're both happy and then we've spoken every day since for the last week just about all stuff and we've never spoken before before that.
01:27:20.50
youcantcompthis
Um, yeah, yeah, yeah.
01:27:32.45
youcantcompthis
Awesome.
01:27:38.64
jono michaels
And so you know if you want to trade you want to sell like anything in life. It has to be a win win. We're not here to rip someone off, We're not here to to you know hear these horror stories and sometimes pop up on these pages. Be kind to people and have fun.
01:27:50.36
youcantcompthis
Um, yeah.
01:27:53.22
youcantcompthis
I think we should probably leave that there to be honest, this is gonna this started off as a 15 minute conversation we've gone out to an hour and 28 no it's not a problem so I'm thinking we just make this your own podcast and then the madie tabed in we can do. That's like a part 2 or something like that because.
01:28:01.37
jono michaels
Um, yesarreta.
01:28:09.68
jono michaels
Um, was.
01:28:12.16
youcantcompthis
This has been amazing. So thank you so much I'm I'm flattered that you would give us this much time and I hope you enjoyed yourself too and forever everyone listening at home. No no I've been nagging you for a while to be fair. Yeah yeah.
01:28:17.98
jono michaels
Ah, ah dip I sorry go ahead? Ah ah, something go to say it's so it's ah it's a long time coming I think we root we we originally spoke on the phone I'm going to say about three years ago we
01:28:31.40
youcantcompthis
Yeah.
01:28:34.62
jono michaels
People we we connected through a mutual friend that works with Russell's wife that's ah you originally got my phone number and I remember you rang me I was on the supermarket I said I promise I'll ring you back I was during covid don't think I ever rang you back. So I do apologize. But since it.
01:28:39.40
youcantcompthis
Ah, yeah, yeah, yeah, right.
01:28:51.11
youcantcompthis
I'd actually completely forgotten about that you shouldn't have reminded me oh I'm I'm still mad at you about that? Yeah yeah, yeah, yeah.
01:28:53.85
jono michaels
But since then as I said you were came to my house like a couple of months ago and we showed each other our pcs and some cards and. Um, stuff like what you and Adam do is ah is is great for the hobby as I said I love listening in and I wasn't joking when I said to others listen in get in the comments section. Um, this hobby isn't just about collecting. It's about talking about collecting talking about cards talking about basketball. How basketball affects the prices and the card market and um, you know I'm not just saying this There's probably the 3 people that I tune into you guys are one of them and you know thanks for thanks for you guys for you know, putting your time in everybody thinks it's just easy to jump on a. Jump on the computer for 15 minutes or half an hour an hour and talk stuff but I know you guys probably do a lot of research and and a lot of background of what you guys are going to talk about. So thank you for for you guys for putting your time in.
01:29:52.11
youcantcompthis
Look now it's a sort of part of my life. You know in terms of the preparation. It's just part of an everyday thing so I don't particularly sit down for you know, 2 hours a week or one hour a week as I think about things I just sort of put it into a spread I'm not trying to talk it down but what I'm trying to say is it's just sort of. Part of what I do every day now and look I really enjoy it and hopefully we'll keep it going as long as we can you know? Yeah Thank you thank you for your con wordss. Yeah, thanks yeah, all right guys I think we'll end this here and.
01:30:16.32
jono michaels
Yeah, ah yeah, but as I said you know that thank you for the the collectors and the people that the time you guys put in.
01:30:28.65
youcantcompthis
Thank you everyone for listening and we'll catch you guys next week right? Bye bye.
01:30:31.72
jono michaels
Say guys.