Episode 225: The Autograph Scandal – 500 Million Worth of Fakes?!

 This week we dive into the growing scandal surrounding fake autographs in the sports memorabilia world – sparked by MisterMancave’s post, investigated by Boston Card Hunter, and responded to by PSA/DNA's Steve Grad.

We break down:

• The alleged $500 million fake auto market
• Why buying from China, Japan or even Australia might be risky
• The challenge of identifying post-market signatures
• PSA’s silence: what does it mean?
• Our take: how this affects collectors, especially in the card vs memorabilia space

We also talk NBA:

• Lillard back to the Blazers?!
• Marcus Smart to the Lakers
• Furphy Dunk buzz
• CJ McCollum, Poole, and Beal trades
• And yes, Ben McLemore’s 8-year prison sentence

If you collect, this is a must-listen episode.

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Transcript

00:00:00.00
Russell Gibson
and

00:00:07.37
Russell Gibson
What I wrote in the sheet correct. Yep.

00:00:35.60
Russell Gibson
Yeah, it's

00:00:40.57
Russell Gibson
we'll do it again. Yeah. Okay.

00:00:46.89
Russell Gibson
No stress.

00:01:16.02
Russell Gibson
It always is. Hello, Adam. Hello, everyone at home. Hope you're all very well today.

00:01:25.98
Russell Gibson
so obviously the big one for us to talk about is the Mr. Man Cave story. And I think we need to, yeah,

00:01:38.10
Russell Gibson
we need to obviously tread on some of that very carefully, but at the same time we will

00:01:49.70
Russell Gibson
ah Then after that, we're going to go through some just general NBA news. Caitlin Clark, Bradley Beal, Michael Smart, Damian Lillard, Ben McLenmore, which we were supposed to get to last week, but, you know, in true.

00:02:04.39
Russell Gibson
Hopefully we'll talk some some Furphy, nice little dunk that he had. And, you Dante Exum, Jordan Poole, CJ McCollum. Look, it's just on and on at the moment. We really have got so much stuff that we haven't covered from the last couple of weeks. So,

00:02:19.88
Russell Gibson
Yeah.

00:02:23.69
Russell Gibson
All right, let's just get straight into it. So if you haven't heard or if you haven't been around it, probably the best place to get this information is from Sports Cards Nonsense because that's where they actually... i don't think they broke the story, but I would say they're the ones who brought it to the mainstream the fastest.

00:02:44.73
Russell Gibson
And it was a post that was put onto Autographs 101 by, excuse my pronunciation, Brett Lemieux. And basically... So when I was reading this, I was reading this as a goodbye story.

00:02:58.78
Russell Gibson
And so what you didn't know at the time was what he was meaning by goodbye. So was he saying goodbye to the hobby? um Was he giving the middle finger to the Western world? ah Had he put all his money into an escrow account and then he was going to leave um to a non-extradition country? That's what I thought he was going to be doing.

00:03:21.90
Russell Gibson
But as it turned out, unfortunately, I think that's the best way to say it. Even if someone does do terrible things, I so i still think the loss of a life is he's absolutely tragic tragic. So then he then ended his life because when the police and the FBI went to raid his premises, they also found a body there. So, you know, an absolutely horrible situation.

00:03:42.15
Russell Gibson
outcome of that. And I think now that we've acknowledged that, we can go on to talk about but what he did do. And I think probably the best thing to do here is just read snippets of it. I think if we read the entire post that he put up, it will probably take us the whole episode and also to some of the grammar in it.

00:04:00.08
Russell Gibson
Yeah, there's a lot there. And I think also to ah The grammar isn't great, so it'll be pretty tricky for us to get through. So in the first paragraph, Mr. Man Cave has sold over 4 million items and $350 million dollars in sales. so um yeah now these are obviously numbers that he's claiming himself, and none of this has been verified. So we're going to talk later on about some other content creators that actually broke this down. So specifically Boston Card Hunter and Steve Grad. And Steve Grad is the PSA...

00:04:33.27
Russell Gibson
principal authenticator and also for DNA authentication services. And someone like me or you guys at home too, where you might know this gentleman better is from Porn Stars.

00:04:44.63
Russell Gibson
I love that show. It's just like such a good show. So I've definitely seen him on that. And he's also on the History Channel. So you might know him from that. They interviewed him and his... He's thought about that. steve Steve's thoughts about that was that he's high on his own supply. So the number could be 350 million. It could be 50 million. It could be 35 million. You know, like all this is not verified, but let's just take it at face values.

00:05:07.76
Russell Gibson
um We sold over 5 million Fanatics holograms alone outside what we produced to the biggest vendors in the industry. JSA, we made and produced 3 million counterfeit stickers and holograms. Steiner Sports, we made the yellow card holograms. Panini, we produced holograms and cards for their entire database. When Kobe died, we put out 80,000 items into the marketplace, sold over 500,000 counterfeit Panini items. So again,

00:05:34.37
Russell Gibson
Like basically, when I was saying you before about him giving the middle finger and then leaving the hobby, like he's literally touched on every single base within the hobby there. Yeah. So he's touched on Fanatics. He's touched on Panini.

00:05:48.96
Russell Gibson
So I think now is the perfect time for us to take first sort of time out and just break that down a little bit. What's your first thoughts on that, Ad?

00:06:16.56
Russell Gibson
Yeah.

00:06:27.89
Russell Gibson
Yeah.

00:06:39.68
Russell Gibson
yeah

00:06:47.99
Russell Gibson
If it's true what he's saying. Yeah.

00:06:57.84
Russell Gibson
Yeah, absolutely.

00:07:01.59
Russell Gibson
Yeah, absolutely. on On his way out of the door, literally letting the, you know, the door hit him in the ass as he walked out. Yeah. So my take on that is, is that too. It's like, And I think where my first thoughts sort of go to, and we'll talk about about this off air a little bit, is like it really does bring attention to providence. Like where does something come from and, you know, who did you purchase it from? So did you get it out of a pack?

00:07:25.41
Russell Gibson
You're very confident that's a legitimate thing. Did you get it out of a break? There's no reason to think that it's been switched or counterfeited. I think that's totally fine. um If you're buying it off sellers who are legitimate, so our friends at Fastbreak Trading Cards, our other sponsor, US Sports Cards Australia, we know that they've got direct produce lines and direct source lines to where it's all coming from. That's all fine.

00:07:49.07
Russell Gibson
um not that they're sponsoring the show but someone like cherry collectibles we know that they've got direct connections with both panini and fanatics there's no question of where that stuff's coming from so i think if you're going to those sort of big boys and you're doing that and if i haven't named you as a legitimate seller this is not me throwing shade at you i'm just trying to um

00:08:11.46
Russell Gibson
yeah yeah correct Correct. Yeah. And so I think that's, you know, if something is going to be learned from all this or something's going to gained from all this, I really do think this is something for me that's like a really big takeaway and it definitely will make me think, you know, more about it. So, you know, secondary markets, eBay become a lot more problematic.

00:08:34.84
Russell Gibson
Facebook pages become a lot more problematic and maybe even like, dare I say it, like ComC because, you're essentially using Comcy as that middleman to kind of separate yourself from, know, the buyer and the seller. And, you know, the other example of this, I think is probably a little bit relevant because we talking about it last week was Veriswap. So people can put fake cards up onto Veriswap, then they get shipped out to Australia and the transaction gets done. But it's like,

00:09:04.16
Russell Gibson
you know, how does that, how does Veriswap verify that the cards are actually, you know, real? And is it their responsibility to be doing that too? Like, I don't, I have no idea what their T's and C's are and neither am I accusing them of doing dodgy stuff, but this is the type of thing that is just like going through my head with that sort of first paragraph part. Yep.

00:09:24.35
Russell Gibson
Yep.

00:09:28.89
Russell Gibson
Yeah, I think it depends what you're repacking. So I think if you're repacking Panini cards and you're repacking Topps cards, even Upper Deck cards, I don't think that that risk profile has changed from last week. I still think you have to be careful and I think you have to you know still be obviously knowing what you're buying into. But I think maybe if you're doing a memorabilia repack,

00:09:54.82
Russell Gibson
you know And look, people at home, if you guys you know think I'm being naive about this, because he I think in my head, again, we'll talk about this off air. I've always sort of deemed that the aftermarket memorabilia trade is too risky for my liking because I don't know enough about it.

00:10:12.46
Russell Gibson
I don't know enough about the autographs. I don't know and enough about the providence. I've always felt that. So I've almost felt a little bit safer with cards in that

00:10:21.79
Russell Gibson
you do see the Panini hologram on the stickers and you do see that the cards been, ah you know, authentic on the back, all that type of stuff. So, but maybe I'm being too confident in here, particularly when they are talking about 80,000 items went out to the marketplace or no 500,000 counterfeit Panini items. He's saying there. So,

00:10:39.18
Russell Gibson
Yeah. um The second paragraph, he just goes on to name all the people that he was in cahoots with. Yep. The third paragraph, um it just talks about where he all sold it from. And then it talks about bullpen, ultimate sports, athletes, signature dog, all American authentics, you know, on and on and on.

00:10:59.10
Russell Gibson
And just how he started off as a small project and then kept on getting bigger. He also spoke about his addiction for that to keep going. And that he purchased legitimate items, basically studied it all down.

00:11:12.76
Russell Gibson
um And then he went on to create things using an autograph pen. So this part, I actually had to, you know, Google this, you know, a little bit more and understand it. But my understanding is it's a and up to speak specific type of pen that they use when they do the autograph.

00:11:32.27
Russell Gibson
And allegedly, it's they use those pens on purpose. Not allegedly. My understanding is they use these pens on purpose because it's actually harder for people then to make remakes of them.

00:11:44.77
Russell Gibson
But what I think what he's trying to say here is that he just spent more time working out how to get around that. And then he had it automated. The whole process was automated.

00:11:56.18
Russell Gibson
Everything was automated, including doing the, the hologram, the autograph, the sticker going onto to it. So it yeah, it's, I think this is probably the good time for us now to segue into the other part that we're talking about. So huge shout out to Boston Card Hunter. He did ah video on his page.

00:12:19.31
Russell Gibson
It's a little bit hard to find actually, because when you're watching it at first, it's just him sitting in his car and actually Steve Grad comes onto the video. And in that video, what he's talking about there is like, well, how did they get all these stickers and where did it all come from?

00:12:35.62
Russell Gibson
And so...

00:12:38.43
Russell Gibson
what Steve was suggesting is that like, this is not a small time operation where you could produce it in America or even in your own backyard. They've obviously got some really high end manufacturing going on in China. And so they using these Chinese sources and then bring it into America to finish it off.

00:12:56.91
Russell Gibson
But even Steve himself was ah like, he wasn't giving the answers of like how it could be done. He was sort of just like putting down, you know little like bits of nuggets, but by the sounds of it, Like, I think what Brett's done here is he's really just taken all these different sources of product and then put it together himself. And I think that was his, like, genius ah about it all.

00:13:18.88
Russell Gibson
Yeah.

00:13:22.34
Russell Gibson
Steiner came at me and then they folded. Fanatics, I bought so much they didn't know what to say to do, but you ran your mouth and I, and what Michael Rubin thinks he's done to the industry, I set out to make as many Fanatics counterfeit stickers as I could, millions upon millions.

00:13:37.00
Russell Gibson
There will be photos of this bus, I'm sure of it. If it was Fanatics, they may try to bury it all, but the Westfield police came today at 9am with semi-trucks. I hope no one tries to hide this. I want to expose it all and have been given operation. You knew...

00:13:50.19
Russell Gibson
was going on to grasp how big it was. I wish I could write a book about this. I mean, i wish I wish he had written a book about it too, instead of killing himself, you know, like that.

00:14:03.50
Russell Gibson
How full. Yeah. Yeah.

00:14:11.13
Russell Gibson
This is the next part, which I think we should read word for word. I'll try my best here to fill in the the grammar. I always took it as a challenge, started slow and bad and shifted to the giant that was built. I spent sleepless nights planning what items to counterfeit next.

00:14:23.82
Russell Gibson
I had every hologram we ever made extracted from every company's database and put into Excel. So with a touch of a button, I can type my homes and a bin shoots out with every my home stick or hologram or certificate.

00:14:37.25
Russell Gibson
of authentication card. Every item automated and sorted, I'd spend countless hours scrolling Excel, finding my next score. It was a thrill having every athlete in every sport from every authentication company at your fingertips to produce the signature flawless authentic, authenticate it with flawless bootleg holograms, and then sell it for half of what a company does by the thousands.

00:14:58.99
Russell Gibson
And that's the part where I feel like maybe he's like overestimating what he does because how many people are going to buy something for 50 cents on the dollar and think it's a legit item?

00:15:11.02
Russell Gibson
Like if you're buying a Kobe autograph at the moment for $500, that would be like extreme alarm bells, wouldn't it add?

00:15:26.10
Russell Gibson
Oh, a dealer. Yeah, sure. Yeah, yeah.

00:15:33.75
Russell Gibson
And it gives you heaps of room to make money. Yeah. yeah Yeah. yeah yeah yeah um Yeah. You're right on that. I'm wrong. I think that's where I was thinking. in They're not sending direct to the end. Oh, then maybe they are sending direct to the end person, but also too, they're selling to dealers. Yep.

00:15:56.95
Russell Gibson
Yep. And then they sell it at full price. Correct. Yeah. You're right.

00:16:03.78
Russell Gibson
Yeah, delicious. Yeah. Yeah.

00:16:12.12
Russell Gibson
Next name, next flawless signature. I was addicted. It was a rush. I wanted out, but the money was too good. I can make a hundred thousand in a week if I wanted to. The fact that not one dealer that knew what we were you doing

00:16:24.74
Russell Gibson
Yeah, you're right. Yeah, you you called that 100% right. At your fingertips to produce this NHL flawless, I think, blah, blah, blah. blah blah i've already read that, I think. Yep. Screenshot.

00:16:35.59
Russell Gibson
The fact that not one dealer that knew what we were doing to the industry or when I took their exclusive, no one ever picked up a phone to confront me. That baffled me. I told multiple deals I will ruin you and your exclusive. They knew better.

00:16:47.60
Russell Gibson
Once the heat turns on, new company, same game, but it makes it better than the last that you got caught up. Every company made changes. We did too. They added security. We did too. There was nothing that couldn't be done.

00:16:59.22
Russell Gibson
I sat on an auto, this is the part. I sat on an auto pen machine eight hours a day, perfecting signatures that would pass any certificate of authentication. It even passed by own players during signees with mixing items.

00:17:12.62
Russell Gibson
We, what would you do if you could create any signature on any surface flawlessly and have the holograms to boot? I just couldn't stop. You'll see a boom in bad autographs with good stickers hitting the market like a firestorm.

00:17:27.19
Russell Gibson
I sold over 2 million in just holograms to every avenue I could. Enjoy the industry all. End of, uh, end of post.

00:17:43.26
Russell Gibson
Middle finger. That's all right. to the To the industry right there.

00:17:55.82
Russell Gibson
But it sounds like he's touched everything.

00:17:59.30
Russell Gibson
He claims to have touched everything. Yep.

00:18:12.08
Russell Gibson
That's the stuff where I think you really need to, you know, be very wary of.

00:18:25.26
Russell Gibson
Yeah.

00:18:29.27
Russell Gibson
But also too, like that, like that margin that we were just discussing, buying a Kobe autograph at 50 cents of the dollar,

00:18:39.07
Russell Gibson
I think if you're running a retail space, you need those type of numbers for the business to be profitable. So like the logic is there, how you could fall into that, how you could fall into the Mr. Man Cave scenario.

00:18:57.82
Russell Gibson
Hey, um why don't we go to a break and we'll we'll come back and we'll keep breaking this down. So the obvious break here is to go to our friends at Fast Break Trading Cards who are a direct fanatics partner. So if you would like to avoid the Mr. Mancaves of the world, all you need to go is to your computer and type

00:19:27.36
Russell Gibson
But I spelt it wrong, so it didn't come up. That's okay. I'll fix that now. And there you'll find that they are an official partner of Topps and also Fanatics. So you can literally walk into their shop, 75 Tulip Street in Cheltenham.

00:19:39.12
Russell Gibson
You'll see they've got Fanatics jerseys hanging on their walls, which are actually direct from Fanatics. Mr. Man Cave hasn't touched them. You can go in there and buy with absolute confidence.

00:19:50.57
Russell Gibson
So let's have a look at their Fanatics authentic jerseys. I think this is the perfect time to talk about it. Justin Herbert, Los Angeles Chargers autographed powder blue jersey, $875. Kobe White, that's a black Bulls jersey. I love that one there for $415.

00:20:07.18
Russell Gibson
Phil Foden, Manchester City, the baby blue for $685. Marcus Rashford on special for $650.

00:20:15.21
Russell Gibson
Tyrese Maxey, the nice Philadelphia blue for 565. Erlen Haaland for 1450. Again, that nice baby blue. Kamala Anthony, again, there's a lot of baby blue in here. I keep saying that baby blue.

00:20:28.89
Russell Gibson
For 895, my boy, Hakeem Olajuwon, for 535 championship red. So... and that championship read so Guys, if you would like to get some memorabilia, you want some guarantees on what you're purchasing, this is the perfect segue and advertisement for us.

00:20:45.50
Russell Gibson
Thank you so much to the guys at Fastbreak Trading Cards for providing a safe space in the hobby and also for your sponsorship to our show.

00:21:03.36
Russell Gibson
Alrighty, we are back. Adam, how are you doing, buddy?

00:21:09.20
Russell Gibson
Continue this um this nightmare, yeah. Alrighty. So I think the next thing that we do is just go to some of the notes that I ah broke down, that I wrote down about Steve Grad and the Boston Card Hunter.

00:21:21.46
Russell Gibson
Guys, if you don't follow Boston Card Hunter on Instagram, I really strongly suggest that you do. He just makes good content. You know, he he doesn't over overreact.

00:21:32.29
Russell Gibson
He just sort of sits down ah and thoughtfully, you know, talks about stuff. So the first thing that he spoke about that I wanted to break down was he was saying, you know, the total pie of the hobby is approximately $15 billion. dollars If he is claiming to have counterfeited 500 million, that's an estimated 5% of the total hobby is fake.

00:21:53.24
Russell Gibson
And so I think that's a really good way to think about it. So then you can kind of say, well, how much of my collection is is fake? so um So it let's just make it selfish and you know make it about me because I think this is how most people will think about it.

00:22:07.96
Russell Gibson
I've got two De'Aaron Fox jerseys in my collection that have got autographs. So you know maybe one of those two is fake. Um, I, I bought my one off Facebook marketplace and the other one was given to me as a present.

00:22:22.54
Russell Gibson
Um, the other thing that I've got on my collection is a Kobe autograph. That's BGS, BGS graded and authenticated. ah card. Yep.

00:22:34.38
Russell Gibson
Well, I agree with you, but at the same time, I don't want to discount it just because of what he said of how many Kobe's he put out into the marketplace. Um,

00:22:48.02
Russell Gibson
Yeah. Yeah.

00:22:52.39
Russell Gibson
So you're totally fine with those. There's no reason to think that they would have bought those off Mr. Man Cave. Yeah. Because they had they they had ah an agreement with Kobe that he was exclusive to them. So, yeah.

00:23:29.27
Russell Gibson
hundred percent 100%. So I think you just have to start now checking your certificates. Yeah. Just going onto the the website. Yeah. And or getting it re-authenticated.

00:23:51.11
Russell Gibson
Yeah.

00:23:58.81
Russell Gibson
Yeah. ah We've already spoken about this, but we'll quickly go over it again. Just the provenance, like where the risks are is where did you get it from? And I think this is really going to change.

00:24:10.74
Russell Gibson
I think if there is going to be some change in the hobby after this, it's all going to be about provenance. It's like, where did the item come from? And I think this is the part where it's so... When we're making content, I always try and to make it educational and it's like, what can we learn from this? You know, what can we do different? Like we're not like running around with our shirts off.

00:24:30.16
Russell Gibson
So I think for me, this is the part I think as, as this is the educational piece I would like to put forward. I think as you're purchasing something, you now need to ask yourself, how is the condition?

00:24:40.51
Russell Gibson
How is the price? And also then where is the provenance? Like where did this item come from? Yep.

00:24:48.27
Russell Gibson
Yep, exactly. Yep.

00:24:52.70
Russell Gibson
Yeah. Yeah. but ah I mean, I think it depends on like.

00:25:03.35
Russell Gibson
Yeah. yeah

00:25:09.65
Russell Gibson
But I think even that itself could... So just to be devil's advocate on that, I think that even that could be faked. Because if you have bought... If you've bought 50 grand's worth of stuff from Mr. Man Cave, you're not going to tell people in your shop.

00:25:21.88
Russell Gibson
Like hypothetically, you're not going to tell people in your shop. I think where I'm going with that is like... um Are you buying it directly off someone who is reputable or or are you not? And then also to looking at your certificate of authenticities and really like examining that.

00:25:36.00
Russell Gibson
And again, that, so segueing into the next part, and that's what they'll talk again, they'll talk about on this video with Steve Grad. So he was talking about, he gave the example for Beckett. So he was saying with the fake Beckett stickers, they actually, you can smudge the fake ones you can smudge.

00:25:51.78
Russell Gibson
And Boston Card Hunter, and I think this was probably like the best part of what he said, he's like, well, every grading company now needs to come out with an educational video to say, this is what a good PSA slab looks like. This is what a bad PSA slab looks like.

00:26:06.41
Russell Gibson
This is what a good BGS slab looks like. This is what a bad one looks like. And I'm not going to lie to you. That's exactly what we need. And i would say I would say more to the point, why hasn't this happened before?

00:26:18.69
Russell Gibson
There's so much shite content out there. You know what I mean? Actually, here's some content we need that will be really helpful to like the average collector to, you know, to verify their purchases.

00:26:37.75
Russell Gibson
Yeah, yeah. Yeah, for real. Yeah.

00:26:46.44
Russell Gibson
I don't, nah, nah, you can't put Kurtz into scamming. That's, yeah hang on, hang on a second.

00:26:56.56
Russell Gibson
um All right.

00:26:59.83
Russell Gibson
Yeah, yeah, for sure. I think that's a really good thing. And again, maybe this is something that's going to come out of this, which I think would be a really good thing. ah The next thing he said was, I wonder how much stuff he touched. I wonder if he's doing Jordan. Someone out there has been doing Jordan.

00:27:14.30
Russell Gibson
And I think that's a really good,

00:27:18.87
Russell Gibson
If you're trying to join the dots out there, and especially if you're the head of authentication like Steve is, and you're seeing this from a really high level, and you're like, we're getting all these Jordans coming in Like, where are they all coming from?

00:27:30.42
Russell Gibson
Then you get a guy come out and says, I've done 500,000 items. Okay. That's actually a very reasonable thing to say. So yeah, how much Jordan are they going to be having any C stuff? And again, as something else I spoke about too, which I completely agree with, they need to show collectors.

00:27:48.43
Russell Gibson
what was seized and what this bad stuff looks like. And I would say more to the point, PSA needs to be shown what the bad stuff looks like. BGS needs to be shown what the bad stuff looks like.

00:27:59.90
Russell Gibson
um we We had the guys on at the hobby hangout and they were they were talking about all their autograph authentication stuff. All those auto companies, I think they should have almost like right of way or, you know, first first chance to look at it. You know I'm sure there's going to be a whole lot of, you know, avenues that need to be looked at before it goes down.

00:28:26.74
Russell Gibson
I think

00:28:33.65
Russell Gibson
i think absolutely. Absolutely.

00:28:54.53
Russell Gibson
I think we just need to know. And I think if there's going to be a little bit of fallout, i think there's going to be fallout anyway, yet right? Yeah.

00:29:07.11
Russell Gibson
The next thing Steve said was, um I wouldn't be buying anything out of Japan or China, which I think is a really interesting one. And we'll talk about that a little bit more. He also thinks that these fake items are being sold in China, Japan, and Australia. So we unfortunately got a very honorable mention in that.

00:29:23.37
Russell Gibson
I think for me, that statement is actually a little bit ironic. And I think it's one of those statements where you make it, and I don't think he meant it in a racist way or like, you know looking down on other countries. But for me, that statement's very ironic because the person who's done the most scamming, like there was the other one, the other huge one that like went down, which was bullpen.

00:29:45.25
Russell Gibson
That was an American company. And now the biggest one again is American. So actually like for me, for me For me, that's almost like stupidity. Like, mate, you actually need to sit down and just like think about the logistics chain of you like where this is all going. like The biggest market for all this stuff is America.

00:30:04.48
Russell Gibson
course, the forgeries are going to be in America. like So I don't disagree with what he's saying in terms of like you know buying stuff out of Japan. and buying And I'm sure he's got very good reason for saying that too.

00:30:15.45
Russell Gibson
Again, as someone who's seen this stuff like really high up and And there also might be some truth in saying that they're being sold in China, Japan, and Australia. They're also being sold in America too. So like, don't, you know, don't leave that sort of part out. I think that was the part.

00:30:30.34
Russell Gibson
Um,

00:30:33.02
Russell Gibson
Yeah. Yeah. People are doing Beckett certificates in Japan. i wouldn't even consider buying over there. So i think that's a really interesting one. My experience of hobby shops in Japan has been a really enjoyable experience, actually.

00:30:47.37
Russell Gibson
i find the prices a little bit more friendly, whether it's like they've got different taxation brackets or they just need to make less money from the hobby. I don't know what it is. No, I've bought Panini Sealed over there and I've just bought like, I've just bought single cards out of boxes, you know, like like, you know, just sort of just sitting down for an hour or two hours.

00:31:09.85
Russell Gibson
No, Sealed product. Yeah. I think I bought, I bought Zion and JAR Prism Hobby in Japan. Yeah. that That's what I remember buying over there. That's a few years ago now.

00:31:23.72
Russell Gibson
Um,

00:31:26.89
Russell Gibson
Who would make the... Yeah, so this is something else to talk about too. And I think this is probably... We touched this before. Who would make the company? So what he what he was talking about that was like... he was Steve was making the argument that you wouldn't make this stuff in America because people wouldn't want to take on the antitrust and the lawsuits of making fake stuff.

00:31:46.91
Russell Gibson
So that's why he believes logically it's being mass-produced.

00:31:55.65
Russell Gibson
No, so I think what he said, i think I think, so again, obviously they say this very loosely and so does and so does Brett, to be fair, who made the initial statement. Like, I think they when they were making these statements, they're not they're not giving an ironclad. You have to kind of like put the breadcrumbs in together. Yeah. Yeah.

00:32:22.95
Russell Gibson
No, I think the high-tech forgery of the holograms is being done in China. And then they would bring in those holograms, import them into America. and then they would do like whatever they're doing. unless Unless all of the production of the cards is being done in China. And then he's got his autograph machine in America and he and he finishes them off, you know.

00:32:42.99
Russell Gibson
um Steve's advice by from Fanatics Direct, we've already covered that. We've shouted out our boys at Fast Break. um And then they were also talking about too, was like, Steve was saying to the Boston Card Hunter, you know, thank you for shouting out and calling out these people.

00:32:59.77
Russell Gibson
And I've put this in quotes. This is what the Boston Card Hunter said. I won't tolerate this. I think that's a really healthy way to look at the hobby. And

00:33:14.85
Russell Gibson
And I feel like I've been thinking a lot last week about our timeless moment that we did about the fake panini seals, because that's not really like you and I have have discussed a lot about the type of content that we want to make. and And we've never tried to do clickbaity stuff, at least intentionally.

00:33:33.66
Russell Gibson
And I think I had a lot of reservations about making that episode because I was like, am I just sort of, you know, hopping onto some sort of bandwagon? Yeah, but but I genuinely felt that...

00:33:46.93
Russell Gibson
Correct. And now that I heard the Boston Card Hunter say that, it kind of gave me some reassurances. And actually, no, we didn't agree with that behavior that went on. we We decided that we wouldn't tolerate it, and we decided to do some educational pieces around it. And I think i think this i think the timing of this, this is not our normal um ratio of... like of scamming to basketball news. So this is obviously a lot for us at the moment, but I think this is, it's not going to be obviously like this forever.

00:34:17.01
Russell Gibson
All right. So my takeaways of this is I take this more away as like it's more of a risk about memorabilia versus cards. I i really do think that it's more of a memorabilia thing than cards. However, cards has been touched.

00:34:31.67
Russell Gibson
Yeah, and really, I think where my thought process is now going is like, is providence. Where am I buying this stuff from? I want to start avoiding buying this from the aftermarket.

00:34:43.92
Russell Gibson
I want to really be buying this from people, you know, who know what they're talking about. And and yeah, I think really for me, that's that's where I'm probably, where I'm going to leave this today, Ad, because, you know, we've we've done a lot and this is basically 30 minutes now.

00:34:57.56
Russell Gibson
I'll give you the final thoughts though, because I feel like you you gave me a lot of time to chat through that.

00:35:10.91
Russell Gibson
Yeah.

00:35:19.44
Russell Gibson
yeah

00:35:35.44
Russell Gibson
yeah

00:35:40.64
Russell Gibson
Retail. Yeah.

00:35:47.02
Russell Gibson
Yeah.

00:36:02.42
Russell Gibson
Yeah.

00:36:06.44
Russell Gibson
Look, I got be honest too. I do understand why people try and get things cheaper. Like there is a part of me. Yeah. There's a part of me that's kind of like,

00:36:17.02
Russell Gibson
it It is expensive going to fast break and buying that stuff off the wall. You know, I could save $300 getting it online, but then at the same time, you've literally just flushed, instead of saving yourself $300, you've actually just flushed down the toilet $500 on an $800 purchase. So like, it's it's such a false economy, isn't it? when you say it like that, like, look, maybe that's the perfect way to finish this segment ad. Yeah.

00:36:42.73
Russell Gibson
Yeah.

00:36:58.25
Russell Gibson
Yeah. Yeah, yeah. They're not selling shit. Yeah. Yeah. Thank you to ussportscardsaustralia.com.au for your ongoing pledge.

00:37:13.39
Russell Gibson
go to them it's right Go to their website, ussportscardsaustralia.com.au. There you will find sports breaks, singles, collectible protection, hobby boxes, sports memorabilia.

00:37:26.71
Russell Gibson
This is going to be a sports memorabilia um episode. They don't have a lot. Steve Francis autographed jersey for $90 and a 2023 Hit Parade autographed baseball jersey $90.

00:37:40.74
Russell Gibson
which is from David Adams. So obviously, um now Ross's other big project is Check Out My Cards Australia, which is a card consignment service. Click on the three little noodles. Click on Check Out My Cards Australia.

00:37:54.67
Russell Gibson
Click on Check Out My Cards submission form. Fill out the submission form. Post all your cards to Ross. He will sell them all for you. Put the cash into your account afterwards.

00:38:05.66
Russell Gibson
On your submission form, write You Can't Comp This for a free submission. which will save you a tidy amount of six cents per card. Thank you, Ross and team, for your ongoing support.

00:38:23.23
Russell Gibson
And we are back. Straight into some WNBA. This is from Twitter account at Breaker Culture. I've had multiple Caitlin Clark collectors reach out to me in the last few weeks looking to sell their entire collections.

00:38:38.85
Russell Gibson
I've passed on them, too risky, but it definitely has me wondering why are they jumping ship on Clark now? Now, has the Clark market peaked?

00:38:49.59
Russell Gibson
Adam, what do you think about this?

00:39:00.72
Russell Gibson
Do you reckon?

00:39:12.22
Russell Gibson
Yeah.

00:39:18.41
Russell Gibson
Yeah.

00:39:24.60
Russell Gibson
Oh, yeah, definitely.

00:39:27.30
Russell Gibson
Yeah.

00:39:47.07
Russell Gibson
Yeah.

00:39:49.92
Russell Gibson
Okay.

00:39:54.15
Russell Gibson
Yeah, okay, look.

00:39:57.17
Russell Gibson
I don't agree or disagree with that. I think that Caitlin Clark can still be high and everything else is low. And I probably think that's what's going to happen for the WNBA.

00:40:08.72
Russell Gibson
Like there's already a massive gap between Caitlin Clark and say... Sabrina Onescu. I think that gap will just keep getting bigger.

00:40:20.08
Russell Gibson
The only, in my mind, the only way where this will really crash is if she gets injured. And I think if she gets like a season ending injury, like for example, what happened to Halliburton,

00:40:33.49
Russell Gibson
I think you will see like catastrophic losses on every Caitlin Clark card out there. Now, in terms of the specific timing on this, I'm actually not too worried about it. I would say that this is par for the course.

00:40:48.89
Russell Gibson
So what, in my opinion, what happens is people will chase the big cards and the big teams and PYTs and irregardless of whether they like that team or not.

00:40:59.71
Russell Gibson
So for example, the last few years, the hot teams have been Spurs. spurs And people buying them aren't Spurs fans. they just They just want to get the those's when the good cards. Yeah.

00:41:11.22
Russell Gibson
You know, the years before that, it was the Charlotte Hornets. Like, you can't tell me every person buying the PYTs for Hornets were Hornets fans. Before that, it was Memphis Grizzlies and obviously the Pelicans. Like, do you even know a single Pelican supporter? I don't know a single one.

00:41:26.49
Russell Gibson
But someone was buying all those teams.

00:41:30.06
Russell Gibson
You know, and on and on. Dallas Mavericks.

00:41:36.56
Russell Gibson
Yeah, but multiply that by 10 and apply that to the WNBA. No one gave two Fs about WNBA product at all. And then these breaks were selling out so fast, you you couldn't even you know list them fast enough, right? Yeah.

00:41:53.75
Russell Gibson
And so I think what happens in those scenarios, people go in, they go in for the gamble, they hit a big card, they send it off to PSA, and then they want to sell that to either move on to the next big thing or, you know, just sort of go on. So I think, you know, you can look at this, you know, from two different perspectives and let's go on to card ladder.

00:42:14.12
Russell Gibson
What actually, what I want to do is I want to look at Jason Tatum. At his all-time sales. I still think, yes, Tatum is injured at the moment. And so this is going to you know mess with his numbers a little bit. like I think that's true.

00:42:27.99
Russell Gibson
Although he's actually not that far down. He's still at $705, which is, like to me, insane. So he was a rookie in 2017, 18, had a little bit of a rise here, and then he had like a trough, okay?

00:42:44.65
Russell Gibson
And so I think that that sort of you know, that rise and the fall and then the fall again, I think that's what every player's cards look like because it's a lot of excitement when the cards first come out and then people, you know, who did, you know, jump in to invest, then they sort of jump out a little bit.

00:43:06.17
Russell Gibson
And so think if you're applying that to all of your collecting moving forward, buying in that first 12 months is is very, very risky. So sometimes buying guys just in the second year, even if they're a really good player, like,

00:43:19.82
Russell Gibson
Luca, Jar, Zion, and all that type of stuff, you know, it's totally fine. It's actually might be the better play to do. And so... Yeah, when people are like unloading because, you know, they've got them, now they want to sell them, you know, to buy something else. And so let's move back to Caitlin Clark. So at the moment, her silver PSA 10 population on this is just 49, which is really interesting to me.

00:43:41.02
Russell Gibson
i would have thought that would have been much, much higher than that. It last sold for 3,100. You take 3,100, you can get a Kobe autograph. You could get a low-end Jordan autograph.

00:43:52.01
Russell Gibson
Like, I'm not saying that... you shouldn't be holding Caitlin Clark. Like at the moment, I still think she's someone you can hold or buy. But at the same time, if people want to flip out of that and get it a Jordan or a Kobe, I've got no problem with that either.

00:44:06.21
Russell Gibson
And so that's a very long winded explanation for that. But Um, yeah, I really think that this is actually not something to be worried about. Yes, she's currently injured. She didn't play in the all-star game.

00:44:19.69
Russell Gibson
You know, I don't think this is a big deal at all. You know, the other one we could look at now is, is Wemby because I think, I think so much money percentage wise went into Wemby because really the last two years there has been not a lot else to, to buy into.

00:44:38.44
Russell Gibson
So the population on Wemby at the moment is 4,633 and he's still trading $780. Like if you want to talk about a risky piece you want to get out of, like that's a hundred times more than Caitlin Clark, more than a hundred.

00:44:58.66
Russell Gibson
So yeah, like if, if you want to talk logic around that, that, that would be my argument there. Yeah. Yeah.

00:45:17.03
Russell Gibson
Yeah, but i think I think the difference with the WNBA, and this is like this is my experience, and I would say I'm relatively well qualified to talk about this. I run a very small WNBA break group, but the guys and girls, that the people that go into those breaks...

00:45:37.12
Russell Gibson
rarely if ever sell their cards. And the reason for that is, is because they actually love the WNBA and they love collecting it. So I think the people that go into WNBA breaks are a little bit of a different beast to what you have from the traditional seller, flipper, buyer, roller that we get in NBA and, you know, even compared to say Pokemon.

00:45:59.42
Russell Gibson
And also too, we haven't in, when I say we've, the WNBA hasn't had this like Luka Doncic, Wemby, Caitlin Clark before. So it's actually a little bit of a u unique situation where it was actually ah an oasis for you to go into cheap breaks and get something, you know, half decent back.

00:46:16.11
Russell Gibson
Right. So yeah, it's really different. um Moving on. Actually, we go to a break? Because we're already up to 46 minutes. It's going to be a really quick break and we'll come back and we'll just do NBA talk. Yep.

00:46:31.26
Russell Gibson
And we are back. This is our last segment of today. Adam, have you had a drink? This is our beverage time.

00:46:47.32
Russell Gibson
It's taken 46 minutes to get to NBA talk. It's not our normal, is it? Yeah.

00:46:57.77
Russell Gibson
I actually thought that was my favorite. Well, the reason I put it at the top, because i was like, that's the most interesting talking point, probably. So, yeah. Alrighty, the next one. Yeah, yeah, we do. We do. There's more interesting stuff, but I just thought it was a good question.

00:47:12.35
Russell Gibson
Bradley Beal is being waived by the Phoenix Sun. So, an absolute huge...

00:47:21.51
Russell Gibson
It makes the Wizards deal look 50 times better now. Because if you can trade away someone and get assets back as opposed to the Suns that gave up assets for him and now paying him to go away, that's wild.

00:47:40.26
Russell Gibson
Oh, yeah. It's really smashing teams. Yeah.

00:47:48.01
Russell Gibson
Yeah.

00:47:53.67
Russell Gibson
It's an insane amount of tax though. It's not just a little bit of tax. It's like, yeah.

00:48:02.72
Russell Gibson
Yeah.

00:48:15.57
Russell Gibson
Yeah.

00:48:19.25
Russell Gibson
Hey, let's let's actually go back in time. This is actually, this is really fun now. So this is from 2023. The Suns get Bradley Beal, Jordan Goodwin, Isaiah Todd. The Wizards get, I'm just going to take a deep breath in here.

00:48:32.53
Russell Gibson
Chris Paul, Landry Schammett, Bilal Koulibaly, which was the number seven pick, which they swapped with the Pacers. 2024 first round pick swap. 2024 second round pick. 2025 second round pick. 2026 first round pick swap. twenty twenty six first round pick swa 2026 second round pick, 2027 second round pick, 2028 first round pick swap, 2028 second round pick, 2030 first round pick swap, 2030 second round pick. The Pacers get Drace Walker, which was the number eight pick from the Wizards, a future second round pick from the Wizards and a future second round pick from the Suns.

00:49:08.27
Russell Gibson
That is cooked. That is absolutely cooked. So if the Suns suck this year,

00:49:19.02
Russell Gibson
don't Don't get me started. I know you're trying to trigger me here. That's insane, man. Like, just the draft equity by itself is 10 times over what they should have paid.

00:49:32.43
Russell Gibson
And then they waive it. All right. Let's talk card values. Bradley Beal, PSA 10, silver rookie, population 31. It's trading bucks.

00:49:46.86
Russell Gibson
Oh my God.

00:49:51.31
Russell Gibson
I'll give you three guesses what this peak traded for in COVID. Have you seen it? Okay. Don't look at it. Just try and guess.

00:50:06.73
Russell Gibson
Higher. Higher. Higher.

00:50:16.18
Russell Gibson
April the 9th, 2021, that sold for 10K. Even at 190 bucks, i'm like, I don't know if I'm dipping my toe into that.

00:50:29.67
Russell Gibson
Marcus Smart has been waived by the Wizards, which I don't agree with. I think Marcus Smart needs to be on the Wizards to show these young kids what to do. He's unfortunately signed with your boys, the Lakers, which again, I hate the Lakers even more.

00:50:43.49
Russell Gibson
Silver PSA 10, Marcus Smart, population on this is $19. The last price on this is $37. That is an A-plus purchase. ah I'm actually going to go into eBay immediately after the show and do some bids on some Marcus Smarts. I think that's an absolute home run.

00:51:01.02
Russell Gibson
um the irony of The irony of that card is that actually it was trading at $185 in the last six months. just in the last six months Yeah, very volatile card that. It's been up and down, yeah, basically from $40 all the way up to $185. yeah, huge A++ plus plus purchase on that at the moment. Marcus Smart.

00:51:25.93
Russell Gibson
Damien Lillard?

00:51:28.81
Russell Gibson
Oh, yeah, definitely. Yeah. Damian Lillard, who was waved by the Bucs, I was hoping he would go to the Lakers or the Warriors, or something like that. He's actually gone back to the Blazers.

00:51:40.75
Russell Gibson
He cited family connection and you know wanting to be close by his children. Look, you can't fault the guy for that, but at the same time, the anti the anti-ring chasing sentiment of that is just grinds my gears slightly, to be honest. I'm not going lie it to you.

00:52:04.16
Russell Gibson
They gave him a no trade clause in his contract. So there's only two players in the league with that. Him and Bradley Beal.

00:52:14.51
Russell Gibson
Not Luka or LeBron. Bradley Beal and Lillard. There we go.

00:52:20.93
Russell Gibson
No.

00:52:23.87
Russell Gibson
Not according to Shams Sharania.

00:52:29.55
Russell Gibson
He might have been an old deal.

00:52:45.71
Russell Gibson
I think when he left, he said there was no loyalty. Yeah.

00:53:04.97
Russell Gibson
I think when you when you leave an organization and you say something like that, it's not the best way to leave, but I'd also say that's recoverable. It's not like you said you're the biggest dogs out there and you ripped me off or whatever. You know what i mean? Like, it wasn't like that. It's just like his feelings were hurt when they traded him, which was, I thought actually a little bit ironic because I felt like they were doing him a favor, to be honest.

00:53:27.87
Russell Gibson
Anyway. Damian Lillard, silver PSA 10, rookie card from 2012. No rookie logo on that one, unfortunately. Population on that 45, last sold for 1,140. are you buying, holding, selling that at 1,140? look...

00:53:39.91
Russell Gibson
adam ah you buying holding or selling that and one thousand one hundred and forty

00:53:51.95
Russell Gibson
yeah look

00:54:27.81
Russell Gibson
Yeah.

00:54:38.28
Russell Gibson
40th all-time on the NBA scoring list, 21,000 points. Seven-time All-Star. First, All-NBA once. Second team twice.

00:54:49.81
Russell Gibson
Third team four times. 75th anniversary team member. Olympic gold medalist 2020. NBA Rookie of the Year. All-time leading scorer in Portland history.

00:55:02.31
Russell Gibson
Career high, 71 points in a single game. Two-time three-point shootout winner.

00:55:12.77
Russell Gibson
And one of the only few players in NBA history to record multiple games with 60-plus points. Yeah, I think that's where you have to start looking at Lillard from that sort of all-time perspective and then sort of comp that out between other guys. Like, I think for me, like where I'm sitting like right now, it's like, where does he compare to, say, Kareem and the cost of his cards? Like, so that $1,140, are you better off putting that into ah low in karee

00:55:45.20
Russell Gibson
Because, um or a James Worthy rookie card. You know where I'm going with this? It's like, what can you buy for that sort of same amount of money? Because, okay, so the Kareem rookie card PSA 10 is basically half a million dollars. let's Let's just dial this back a little bit.

00:56:04.68
Russell Gibson
um Let's see what we can get. Like a PSA 7. Okay, so a PSA 7 is currently trading at $4,150. four thousand one hundred and fifty dollars Okay, so why don't we look at a PSA 6?

00:56:15.50
Russell Gibson
Do you know what i mean? I feel like that's sort of like, okay, you can get a PSA 6 for two grand. Like, would you rather a Kareem rookie card PSA 6 or two of those or one Lillard Silver? ah You know, it's like, yeah. Yeah.

00:56:53.85
Russell Gibson
Yeah. Yeah.

00:57:18.87
Russell Gibson
Yeah.

00:57:53.58
Russell Gibson
Look, I think this is actually a segment we could do We could look at the values of the 75 anniversary team and then actually go, okay, this guy's over, this guy's under. So for example, the other name that it was just going through my head there was James Worthy.

00:58:08.62
Russell Gibson
So 1986 base FLIR PSA 10 is selling for $3,100. So I think like where I'm sort of going with this, it's like the further you sort of zoom out, the more this sort of stuff makes sense. So it makes sense that the, li like the $1,000 in the Lillard makes sense when you say it like that.

00:58:29.64
Russell Gibson
I think you're better off having the worthy than the Lillard. And I think you're better off having the sixth cream than the Lillard. But do you know what I mean? It's like, it's all kind of ballpark into that space. So, yeah.

00:58:45.34
Russell Gibson
um All right, we've got time, I reckon, for two or three more. We'll do this one really quickly. Ben McLenmore has been sentenced to spend eight years in prison for rape and sexual assault.

00:58:56.66
Russell Gibson
I don't know how many Ben McLenmore collectors are out there, but um you're out the league. You're cooked, buddy. Sorry to hear that.

00:59:07.19
Russell Gibson
Johnny Furphy threw down an absolute monster poster this week and

00:59:20.16
Russell Gibson
The young man that he dunked on, unfortunately, had his eyes in a very particular pose at the time of it.

00:59:27.90
Russell Gibson
Yeah, look, that was like really unfortunate for him, to be honest. I think this is where Pini Instant needs to come in and be like, right, let's get that card out. Let's get Johnny Furphy to on-card autograph this, even if we had the other guy who we got dunked on. That would be a fun card.

00:59:45.35
Russell Gibson
Like, i really think that's this is the stuff that we need to, like, get done. And I actually think that stuff would sell really well.

00:59:54.32
Russell Gibson
Honestly. Even, like, um Tyson Beck. Tell me he couldn't do like a inspired dunk picture because of that.

01:00:07.55
Russell Gibson
I can't believe we haven't spoken about this already. um The Wizards have traded Jordan Poole to the Pelicans for CJ McCollum.

01:00:18.70
Russell Gibson
So, all right. I think the perspective on this that I want to talk to you about it, it's like, who is the hobby winner out of this one?

01:00:28.34
Russell Gibson
Because we know Jordan Poole, we should probably recap this. This is actually quite funny. So Jordan Poole at one point went up to $1,000 for a silver PSA 10. Lest we not forget. It last sold for $30.

01:00:46.59
Russell Gibson
i actually actually don't think um him going to the Pelicans is going to reinvigorate Yeah. And then the other one is CJ McCollum. I doubt McCollum is even in card letter.

01:01:03.71
Russell Gibson
And do you know what? He is. And I spelt his name correctly the first time. That is like, thank you. And that last sold for 20 bucks.

01:01:16.87
Russell Gibson
I think I might have one of those sitting around and I've got a funny feeling I paid like

01:01:23.31
Russell Gibson
hundred ah 100 or 200. I did. we We had some laughs about that.

01:01:30.59
Russell Gibson
Hopefully there wasn't too many. I don't think that many people got burnt.

01:01:37.23
Russell Gibson
Sal. We said Sal as quick as we can. So that was like one thing we got right on this show. Hey, look, um speaking. Okay, so let's just take CJ McCollum um for two seconds and reflect exactly what we just said about Damian Lillard.

01:01:53.82
Russell Gibson
um this is ah This is a buy because,

01:01:59.81
Russell Gibson
yeah, I think what you need to do now is look at him as an all-time guy. And then you have to kind of go like, you know, where does he fit into like, yeah, everything.

01:02:13.44
Russell Gibson
Because um at that at that price, I think that's the type of card that you buy now on the cheap and you just kind of like put it away into a box and and it just holds it value. Okay.

01:02:24.31
Russell Gibson
All right. So let's just like hold this for a second. So Damian Lillard has got 21,000 points. CJ McCollum has got points. So there is a major... There's a major discrepancy there. So actually this is already like taking me down a notch anyway.

01:02:39.40
Russell Gibson
So maybe his pricing is totally fine.

01:02:44.33
Russell Gibson
Yeah, but he scored in my head. I'm like, this guy's been scoring points for a long time. Most improved player in 2016. Yeah, that's it actually. into And then he's, his other things is he's the president of the basketball players association. So it's like, whatever.

01:03:04.55
Russell Gibson
Good guy. Really good guy. All right. Do you know what? I don't think we've got a Jordan to finish off this week. We're going to finish off with your boy, Kobe Bryant. This is from Alt XYZ official on Instagram, 2014 Bryant 9.5 just sold for $60,750. have no, have zero problems with this at all. This is the true gold, which is number to 10. Yep. And,

01:03:26.15
Russell Gibson
i have no i have zero problems with this at all this is the true gold which is number to ten yeah and um there's no chance that Kobe cards are coming back in any capacity, I think, at all ever.

01:03:43.94
Russell Gibson
And I think that the design of this card is amazing.

01:03:51.13
Russell Gibson
So they can... No, no, we've had this conversation ah and i actually I looked this up and what I said last time is right. So they can, but they need to have an agreement with the estate. And I don't think, correct.

01:04:04.17
Russell Gibson
And I don't think there's any possibility that that happens. I don't think she's got any interest in and doing that stuff. Yeah.

01:04:15.49
Russell Gibson
I mean, look, stranger things have happened, but I couldn't imagine that he wasn't well set up financially. like The guy was a maniac on so many different levels.

01:04:28.88
Russell Gibson
ah Would you buy, a hold, or sell that at Yeah.

01:04:35.12
Russell Gibson
Yeah. Like, honestly, there's some cards that you just, you just buy. And even if you have overpaid just a little bit, it's fine. Even if that is an overpay, I still think that's the type card that, and that's, that's just an amazing card.

01:04:49.70
Russell Gibson
Yeah.

01:04:52.31
Russell Gibson
Yeah.

01:04:56.08
Russell Gibson
Yeah. I mean, look, you'd rather pay 19 and 60, but still. Yeah.

01:05:01.28
Russell Gibson
Yeah. A lot.

01:05:04.65
Russell Gibson
i I think that's where the hobby's at though, Ad. It's like the good stuff has gone up, the middle stuff has been middled out, and the bottom stuff has bottomed out bad. you know and I probably think...

01:05:20.66
Russell Gibson
yeah

01:05:25.63
Russell Gibson
Yeah. Thank you, Adam. Thank you, everyone at home for listening.

01:05:33.15
Russell Gibson
We're going to say the YouTube thing here. If you're watching on YouTube, 97% of the people who watch our content are not subscribed. Please subscribe to us. It helps us out a lot.

01:05:48.74
Russell Gibson
Bye everybody.