Episode 230: Three Old Guys Talk about the greatest guards of all time

Russell is on vacation this week, Adam invites his friends from the pocast "Three Old Guys Talking Ball" on to the show for the first of a three part series picking the greatest players of all time

Check out Three Old Guys Talking Ball at the below link 
https://open.spotify.com/show/57hQYBWkffwG2aSjFbx8YJ?si=259d5db83f5b4405

 “The guys debate the greatest NBA guards of all time, from Jordan and Magic to Kobe, Steph, and beyond—who makes the ultimate list?”  

Adam, Andrew and Dan dive into one of basketball’s most heated debates: who are the greatest guards of all time? Drawing on decades of basketball knowledge and countless hours watching the game evolve, the trio explores the legacies of some of the sport’s most influential backcourt players. From the pure scorers and flashy playmakers to the defensive stalwarts and game-changing leaders, each guard is evaluated not only for their on-court accomplishments but also for their lasting impact on the culture of basketball. 

The conversation spans eras, comparing legends from the past to modern superstars, while also addressing the challenges of cross-era comparisons. The hosts debate what qualities truly define greatness—is it championship success, individual dominance, consistency, versatility, or the ability to change the way the game is played? Along the way, they share personal stories, inject humor, and reveal which players made the cut for their individual top-five lists. 

Listeners are treated to both spirited arguments and moments of agreement as the hosts reflect on guards who redefined positions and pushed the game forward. Whether it’s revisiting the artistry of classic floor generals or marveling at the explosiveness of modern-day icons, the episode celebrates the evolution of guard play and the players who set the gold standard. 

Packed with nostalgia, insights, and passion, this episode is a must-listen for fans who love basketball history, heated rankings, and the timeless question of who truly deserves to be called the greatest guard of all time. 

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Transcript

00:00:13.02
Russell Gibson
Welcome, everybody, to episode 230 of the You Can't Comp This NBA Trading Card Podcast. I'm your host, Adam Amey, and I am not joined by Russell Gibson today.

00:00:27.07
Russell Gibson
He has earned himself a holiday. He'll be away for a couple of weeks. But joining me are a couple of old guys who I do another podcast with.

00:00:39.80
Russell Gibson
It's actually a podcast called Three Old Guys Talking Ball. And first but for and foremost, the host, Andrew Lewis.

00:00:48.09
Andrew Lewis
Well, thanks, Adam. Thanks for having me. I'm really excited to appear on You Can't Comp This and Hello to all the people listening.

00:00:55.91
Russell Gibson
Well, I do like the fact that um normally it's me plugging my pod on your pod, so now I can plug your pod by having you guys on um on this pod.

00:01:10.01
Russell Gibson
um We'll go through the the the social stuff and the follow stuff for the other pod in a sec, but also welcoming the third old guy for today's episode. It's Daniel Shea.

00:01:22.90
Dan Shea
G'day, big shoes to fill. um Russell, Gibbo, never met the man.

00:01:29.18
Russell Gibson
Yeah.

00:01:29.24
Dan Shea
But i have

00:01:29.70
Russell Gibson
Yeah. and

00:01:32.89
Dan Shea
I have heard and admired his work. um i think I genuinely do mean the big shoes to fill thing.

00:01:40.77
Russell Gibson
it's um no It's good to have you guys both on. and and yeah like normally Normally we do your show during the week every couple of weeks. so We do the three-hour guys and we and we we chat about just random basketball stuff because we all sort of grew up in the 90s.

00:01:55.86
Russell Gibson
um but We thought we'd do a bit little bit of a crossover with with Russell missing in action. It's really good opportunity for us. to We were going to do the top 10 guards, forwards, and then centres on the show. It just sort of timed it really well with regards to ah with regards to the need for content, I guess.

00:02:13.30
Russell Gibson
So, ah Andrew, before we get started, ah tell us how this dr this ah this selection process is going to work and give us a plug for the the three old guys talking balls.

00:02:24.10
Dan Shea
Bye.

00:02:25.07
Andrew Lewis
Okay, so I'll get the plug out of the way first. um Our socials is just Facebook, so you just need to search Three Old Guys Talking Ball on Facebook. um We're on Spotify, and we're on Apple Podcasts, and we're on Google Podcasts, I think, if it's still going around, or is it switched to YouTube?

00:02:42.18
Russell Gibson
yeah i but It uploads to every podcast.

00:02:44.82
Andrew Lewis
I don't know. Yeah, but you just Google Three Old Guys Talking Ball Podcast, and you'll find it.

00:02:46.74
Russell Gibson
It could be YouTube podcast, yeah.

00:02:51.25
Andrew Lewis
So...

00:02:52.68
Russell Gibson
Do you need safe safe search on?

00:02:52.84
Andrew Lewis
so

00:02:55.63
Andrew Lewis
No, you'll be fine. You'll be fine.

00:02:57.17
Russell Gibson
You're fine, okay.

00:02:57.51
Andrew Lewis
Because they're talking more. So um so the the background for this idea was obviously off-season content, but also um many years ago during the first lockdown,

00:03:13.44
Andrew Lewis
um on a former podcast of Vine, the three of us ah drafted all-time teams to compete against each other in on in a simulation to try and sort of

00:03:30.42
Russell Gibson
That's right. The NBA 2K simulation. And we sat back and watched. That was good. That was a lot of fun.

00:03:35.50
Andrew Lewis
Yeah, so we played like a four-week tournament where everyone played each other once every week it was good fun. But we had, know, every team had to have players from all the eras and as in like one from each era and, know, a certain number guards, certain number of forwards, certain number players. So rather just revisit that,

00:03:53.30
Andrew Lewis
We thought, let's do a draft of like the 30 best players of all time. And because this because centers are probably historically overrepresented in the top 30 of all time, it would be fine to do 10 guards, 10 forwards, and 10 centers.

00:04:09.48
Andrew Lewis
So we're just going to take our turns picking first the because we have one guard-sized member of our of our three old guys.

00:04:10.22
Russell Gibson
Yeah.

00:04:16.39
Andrew Lewis
We have one forward-sized player and we have one centre-sized player. So um Adam is the guard. um So he'll get to pick first today. And it also marries up well because we're on Adam's podcast, You Can't Comp This.

00:04:33.37
Andrew Lewis
And then... The next couple of editions of Three Old Guys Talking Ball, if you want to hear that us do the forwards and the centres, look for the podcast and we will do forwards and then centres and I'll draft the forward first.

00:04:45.15
Andrew Lewis
But we will just take it in turns. So goes Adam, then me, then Daniel tonight and that's the same order it'll go but it'll just start in a different place for forwards and centres and we'll get a list of the top 30 players of all time in our esteemed view.

00:04:56.19
Russell Gibson
ah

00:05:02.04
Russell Gibson
Excellent. And in the meantime, just to keep it to keep it relevant to obviously you can't comp this. I'm going to chime in through each of the 10 picks and I'm going to pick a random random card that ah that relates to one of these all-time greats.

00:05:16.23
Russell Gibson
So just to keep it a little bit card relevant. And you guys yeah might learn a couple of things about Pokemon cards. I mean, basketball cards.

00:05:28.00
Russell Gibson
All right. do we want to do we Do we want to get this part? I've got the first pick, haven't I?

00:05:32.36
Andrew Lewis
You have.

00:05:35.44
Dan Shea
Indeed you do.

00:05:35.66
Russell Gibson
um i have I'm torn.

00:05:38.89
Andrew Lewis
just just this Do all the listeners on, um I'm sure they do on Three of Us Talking Baltimore, but are all the listeners on You Can't Crump This aware of your ah devotion to a specific high-end all-time NBA great guard?

00:05:54.12
Russell Gibson
You mean my's the fact that I...

00:05:58.39
Russell Gibson
i am I am a student of the Mamba Mentality Academy. That's right. No, i'm i'm very i'm i'm yeah I knew you were going to lead up with a Magic Johnson quote or a Jerry West argument.

00:06:09.98
Russell Gibson
We're not getting stuck into that. Not today. And as much

00:06:17.05
Russell Gibson
as every bone in my body wants to mouth the words Kobe Bryant at number one, I'm hoping that one of you people See reason and have this man in the top three. However, with the first overall pick, I am not going to upset the apple cart just yet. one With the number one pick of guards all time, I am going to pick Michael Jeffrey Jordan.

00:06:41.23
Russell Gibson
Surprised?

00:06:43.91
Russell Gibson
I think Dan's in shock.

00:06:44.38
Andrew Lewis
Not really.

00:06:47.45
Russell Gibson
Were you expecting me to pick Kobe?

00:06:51.35
Russell Gibson
Be fair. baby Be real.

00:06:51.87
Dan Shea
A little bit. Yeah.

00:06:56.69
Russell Gibson
No faith. No faith.

00:07:01.03
Russell Gibson
Who wants to give me Michael Jordan's resume? See if he's worthy of that number one spot.

00:07:07.83
Dan Shea
Okay. let's let's let Let's go with it. So um ah Michael Jeffrey Jordan, Black Jesus. entered the and NBA hall of fame with an all time great acceptance speech, um, where he systematically assassinated every single person who's ever doubted him, including a number of fictional ones.

00:07:21.05
Andrew Lewis
Thank you.

00:07:29.29
Dan Shea
Um, but his career really did kind of back it up, you know, six of six, uh, uh, so six appearances at the NBA finals, uh, six championships, 14 all-star 10 times scoring champ, three times steel champs, um,

00:07:46.40
Dan Shea
11-time All-NBA, made the All-Rookie team, nine-time All-Defensive, three-time All-Star MVP, one-time Defensive Player of the Year, six-time Finals MVP, that is every single time he appeared in the Finals, five-time League MVP, and of course, kind of headlined the NBA at 75 anniversary team.

00:08:13.98
Dan Shea
um adversary team

00:08:17.66
Dan Shea
an all-time great clutch scorer amazing two-way player and um interestingly as the league has moved towards more sophisticated statistics um they're kind of uncovering things in these stats including um an all-time great um uh kind of clutch performance um hit more than He hit a higher a higher clip in clutch situations than anyone else ever.

00:08:48.68
Dan Shea
um And ah remaining um the kind of the best mid-range scorer of all time. um Shot an amazing percentage from there. um ah Not much to say.

00:09:02.12
Dan Shea
um No less than um ah Magic Johnson had described him as player. Actually, no, I think it was Isaiah. who described him as a player who um had no weaknesses back in the day, not since but not since beef.

00:09:19.90
Russell Gibson
Interesting. Interesting.

00:09:22.85
Dan Shea
um

00:09:22.83
Russell Gibson
Right. Well, let's move to a round. I've been digging. I'm going to give you rather than the normal nonsense of here's the star rookie card or the Fleer 1986, what we're going to do is I'm going to pick a random card and I'm going to share that with the listeners, the viewers on YouTube.

00:09:48.66
Russell Gibson
Where are we? kablin

00:09:49.91
Dan Shea
You found a Space Jam memorial card, didn't you?

00:09:52.06
Russell Gibson
No, I thought I'd go to 1993 for the Stadium Club Michael Jordan beam team. Something different, something something that's – I don't think I've actually talked about this one on on the show, ah but, you know, random card.

00:10:08.89
Russell Gibson
One i'm looking at we're looking at on the screen is a PSA 10. All-time data on this one.

00:10:16.19
Andrew Lewis
Let me guess.

00:10:16.60
Russell Gibson
is there has been he' been a spike after 2020. the I'll give you the i'll give you the the stats on it. There is a pop count of 27. There are 27 PSA 10s in the world.

00:10:29.31
Russell Gibson
How much do you think this card last sold for?

00:10:36.76
Andrew Lewis
think you also have to take into account that this is this was a 1993 card.

00:10:37.37
Russell Gibson
ah like...

00:10:40.89
Andrew Lewis
So almost certainly Michael Jordan lost it in a game of golf.

00:10:45.83
Russell Gibson
That's true. That's true. But given, because it is a 1993 card, there were of them made.

00:10:47.16
Andrew Lewis
Yeah, it was... Okay.

00:10:53.83
Russell Gibson
Sorry, PSA 10. three thousand two hundred of them greated

00:11:00.34
Russell Gibson
and not many of them of those three thousand two hundred

00:11:00.61
Dan Shea
$200,000. Okay.

00:11:03.74
Russell Gibson
only twenty seven of them graded a p s a ten

00:11:08.31
Andrew Lewis
I'll put my head in the lion's mouth about my... um Lack of expertise. $2,000, Larry. Yep.

00:11:19.26
Russell Gibson
Higher. Then.

00:11:22.54
Dan Shea
two hundred thousand this

00:11:24.55
Russell Gibson
Lower.

00:11:24.86
Dan Shea
that

00:11:25.80
Russell Gibson
This is like a bad game of the prices, right?

00:11:25.99
Dan Shea
ah

00:11:29.22
Dan Shea
No, no, this is the best game I've ever processed.

00:11:29.21
Andrew Lewis
yep um Okay.

00:11:30.95
Dan Shea
30,000. Hmm.

00:11:30.94
Russell Gibson
Lower.

00:11:30.94
Andrew Lewis
and No, no, no. This is my turn, Daniel.

00:11:31.63
Dan Shea
Hmm.

00:11:32.80
Andrew Lewis
um I'd like to buy a vowel. Sorry. No. $50,000. fifty thousand dollars

00:11:40.11
Russell Gibson
Lower. up

00:11:42.33
Dan Shea
thirty thousand

00:11:43.67
Russell Gibson
lower

00:11:44.75
Andrew Lewis
I'd like to order affiliates that,

00:11:45.38
Russell Gibson
It's not a rookie card. it's not There's not a... Yeah. um I can let the cat out of the bag if you like. Last sold price was March 2025 and it sold for $12,000 US.

00:11:51.02
Andrew Lewis
yes, we might be here a while.

00:11:59.57
Russell Gibson
ah So yeah, the there's a big difference between the PSA 9 and the p sa ten PSA 10. PSA 9, however, population count on that one is 270. sold, $1,080 US dollars. bla sold one thousand and eighty us s dollars So big difference between getting a grade of of nine PSA and and a grade of 10.

00:12:17.25
Dan Shea
Mm-hmm.

00:12:17.98
Russell Gibson
So if you ever get a mint bean team, money, money, money. um Just for my, because I didn't pick Kobe at number one, I'm going to also give everybody an update on the heritage auction listing.

00:12:26.26
Andrew Lewis
Thank you.

00:12:32.18
Russell Gibson
Andrew and Dan in our group chat on on the site, I've put a link to it just in case you're interested. We checked in on this, Russell and I, last week on the show. There are still 10 days left, moving into nine days left shortly.

00:12:44.59
Russell Gibson
ah Current price hasn't moved. Still $4.15 million US.

00:12:50.91
Dan Shea
Oh,

00:12:52.11
Russell Gibson
And that is the one-of-one Jordan Coby Logo Man Auto. ah A true one-of-one, and even though it's a ah PSA 6, this is a one-of-a-kind card that... that cannot be remade, um will not be will not be seen again. So this could be one of the most valuable cards of all time.

00:13:13.64
Russell Gibson
So pretty pretty insane thinking that that card is probably gonna eclipse the $5 million dollars mark.

00:13:17.74
Andrew Lewis
So it's

00:13:21.54
Andrew Lewis
time to look behind the couch, see if you can get, see if you can scrape together a few coppers um to make a bid for that. Was it another week before the auction closes?

00:13:31.74
Russell Gibson
Yeah, nine days left. Nine days.

00:13:33.56
Andrew Lewis
Nine days?

00:13:33.80
Russell Gibson
Nine days left on that. Yep. So, interesting.

00:13:35.69
Andrew Lewis
That's a recording. So what does that make? It's about the 22nd of August when the auction closes.

00:13:39.80
Russell Gibson
Yeah, so it's actually going to finish on the 23rd of August. um

00:13:42.88
Andrew Lewis
Okay.

00:13:44.29
Russell Gibson
The day before Kobe...

00:13:44.69
Andrew Lewis
Just coggers in

00:13:46.05
Russell Gibson
It's going to finish on Kobe Bryant's birthday. How cool is that? Is it the 23rd? Or is it the 25th of August?

00:13:55.09
Russell Gibson
August 23rd.

00:13:55.31
Andrew Lewis
a date between us.

00:13:56.01
Russell Gibson
That's going to... It's... Well, and the 24th of the 8th is Kobe Bryant Day. Anyway.

00:14:03.48
Russell Gibson
So yes, auction finishes on Kobe's birthday. Eerie. Anyway, that's enough Kobe talk in the MJ section. On to pick number two.

00:14:12.81
Andrew Lewis
Okay. Okay.

00:14:13.25
Russell Gibson
but Andrew's not going to pick Kobe.

00:14:17.77
Andrew Lewis
Steading on.

00:14:20.31
Andrew Lewis
I get to intro this. Don't. Walk all over step over one.

00:14:25.09
Russell Gibson
Hang on, hang on.

00:14:25.25
Dan Shea
but yeah don Don't yum.

00:14:26.10
Russell Gibson
it

00:14:27.64
Dan Shea
Yeah.

00:14:27.89
Russell Gibson
Hang on a second.

00:14:28.13
Andrew Lewis
Yeah.

00:14:31.37
Russell Gibson
Sorry.

00:14:31.81
Andrew Lewis
So, um

00:14:35.28
Andrew Lewis
with the second pick in the all-time NBA guards draft, I pick a man who played his whole career for the Los Angeles Lakers.

00:14:46.82
Andrew Lewis
A man who won five and NBA championships with only two as the best player on that team. A man who won finals MVP, a man who was a sensation in the National Basketball Association as a rookie.

00:15:03.81
Andrew Lewis
Yes. It's Irvin Magic Johnson.

00:15:08.14
Russell Gibson
The rookie bit gave it away.

00:15:09.90
Andrew Lewis
Hey, Kobe was a yeah sensation as a rookie. He just didn't win finals MVP as a rookie.

00:15:15.94
Russell Gibson
That's fair. That's fair. He did airball a few against Utah.

00:15:16.99
Andrew Lewis
Or...

00:15:18.26
Russell Gibson
utah That was very memorable.

00:15:18.92
Andrew Lewis
like win a game in the round that he got knocked out of.

00:15:23.59
Dan Shea
He was confidently wrong. shall

00:15:26.85
Andrew Lewis
ah

00:15:27.22
Russell Gibson
Fair, fair, fair.

00:15:29.26
Andrew Lewis
Again, maybe the answer to the question, who was um the most fun guy to play with in the history of the NBA? You know, the all fun team to play with, I think.

00:15:43.51
Andrew Lewis
ah You can only name four guys on the all fun team, by the way, because the fifth guy is you, as in whoever's listening. The fifth guy has to be you.

00:15:52.52
Dan Shea
Mm-hmm.

00:15:52.84
Andrew Lewis
So there's like Magic, Nicole Jokic, Bill Russell at the four.

00:16:03.15
Andrew Lewis
um Does it include Larry Bird or Pavlicek, something like that, but it definitely involves Manny Johnson.

00:16:11.03
Russell Gibson
Definitely involves magic.

00:16:13.36
Andrew Lewis
The mogul who later, you know, he's worth $1.5 billion dollars So being able to buy that card or any of the other cards that are mentioned in the course of this podcast, he's a minority owner of the Los Angeles Dodgers.

00:16:21.39
Russell Gibson
and

00:16:32.52
Andrew Lewis
um The Sparks, Los Angeles FC, the Washington Commanders, the guy is a huge success post-basketball and revolutionized the game.

00:16:45.69
Andrew Lewis
and is one of the two players who is credited with saving the NBA, ah along with Larry Legend.

00:16:52.39
Russell Gibson
Yeah. Yeah.

00:16:54.18
Andrew Lewis
So I think he's clearly the second greatest guard of all time. And in my view, any like all-time NBA starting five is the the guards are Michael and Magic.

00:17:10.74
Russell Gibson
That's fair. I'm not going to, I'm not going to, I'd have Kobe started the three just to squeeze him in. So I know it worked a treat too.

00:17:15.18
Andrew Lewis
You did that five years ago. um

00:17:20.62
Andrew Lewis
um I'm happy to give the resume. um Five-time NBA champion, three-times MVP, three-times MVP of the league um over a four-year span. He was selected for the All-Star Game 12 times and won two All-Star Game MVPs and maybe won the most famous All-Star Game MVP of all time in the 92 All-Star Game after he had retired.

00:17:46.84
Russell Gibson
Yeah.

00:17:46.84
Andrew Lewis
Nine consecutive All-NBA first-time appearances. um He led the league in assists four times and was the all all-time leader in assists, I think, for a number of years before being overtaken by someone we might hear about later. Led the league in steals twice on the 50th and 75th anniversary teams.

00:18:07.17
Andrew Lewis
um and was also most outstanding player in NCAA Final Four in a championship team with Michigan State.

00:18:14.93
Russell Gibson
yeah

00:18:15.20
Andrew Lewis
um And this year was awarded the Presidential Medal of Freedom. So he's got that going for him, which is nice.

00:18:22.51
Russell Gibson
Yes. Yes. good Fair resume. not going to discount that.

00:18:26.78
Andrew Lewis
Yeah. Career, 19.5 points per game, 11.2 assists and 7.2 rebounds. eleven point two assists and seven point two rebounds

00:18:35.10
Russell Gibson
Not too shabby. Not too shabby. How would that go in this day and age as far as stats go?

00:18:41.80
Andrew Lewis
I think the points in the system, it's, I mean, it probably averaged more points, I think, in this day and age, but...

00:18:45.59
Russell Gibson
He'd probably have a three ball on him, right? Yeah.

00:18:47.45
Andrew Lewis
Yeah, and I've done research, Adam. So those who listen those who listen to Three Old Guys Talking Ball would have heard Big Wax lyrical on occasion about a Magic Johnson Walt Williams 93-94 NBA hoops face-to-face card that I used to have, ah which got lost down the drawer of my desk at some stage in my later years.

00:18:50.97
Russell Gibson
what? What?

00:19:10.76
Andrew Lewis
It is currently selling on eBay for $5.04. So... so

00:19:18.82
Andrew Lewis
i might just I might just get it back, you know?

00:19:18.94
Russell Gibson
Someone wants to sell it for that.

00:19:22.46
Dan Shea
That wardrobe's rich.

00:19:23.74
Russell Gibson
That's, that's, that is, that is, there's some great homework, Andrew, looking up.

00:19:23.93
Andrew Lewis
Yeah.

00:19:27.16
Andrew Lewis
Yeah. I might have to buy and put it with my Lenny Hayes poker chip that Adam got me one year for my birthday. So the collectibles, see?

00:19:34.75
Russell Gibson
Collectibles. One in three, one in three people collect. Russell and I went through this on a show a little while back.

00:19:40.53
Andrew Lewis
The other two out of the 33 just lose things. But anyway...

00:19:45.33
Russell Gibson
There are three of us here. I collect.

00:19:46.65
Andrew Lewis
magic Magic's the second greatest card of all time.

00:19:47.37
Russell Gibson
Yeah.

00:19:51.18
Russell Gibson
Well, you got the pick, so yes, they it now it is so. um

00:19:55.69
Andrew Lewis
Yeah.

00:19:57.88
Russell Gibson
Aside from that face-to-face from 1993 hoops, ah I did go against the grain because there is the the rookie card that everybody talks about with it's got that that has Larry on it, the triple, the stat leader card that I – everybody else says it's the rookie card. I don't.

00:20:17.40
Russell Gibson
So it's the first solo printing is the 1981 Topps, Fleer Topps, Magic Johnson. PSA 9, pop count is $1,247, but that last sold um in a PSA 9 for $345 US. So but Australian conversion, that's $500 for a Magic Johnson, one of the greatest guards of all time, a rookie card.

00:20:39.77
Russell Gibson
Well, I would say, yes, as far as card investment goes, it's not $4.15 million dollars like that Jordan Kobe patch auto.

00:20:39.94
Andrew Lewis
Very affordable, very affordable.

00:20:49.83
Andrew Lewis
Yeah.

00:20:50.91
Russell Gibson
Yeah.

00:20:51.41
Andrew Lewis
And when Magic is elected president, that's gonna skyrocket.

00:20:59.28
Russell Gibson
He's hoping, right?

00:21:00.40
Andrew Lewis
Yeah. Only if he's elected president.

00:21:04.95
Russell Gibson
This is fair.

00:21:06.10
Andrew Lewis
Please consult your financial advisor.

00:21:09.38
Dan Shea
I born

00:21:09.87
Andrew Lewis
Sorry, I don't usually have this sort of pressure on me on three old guys talking about the side.

00:21:13.46
Russell Gibson
That's fair. That's fair. All right. Well, before we go to the the third pick, let's take a ah quick break. We'll go to one of our sponsors and then we will be back for the number three pick.

00:21:27.67
Russell Gibson
And we are back. Dan, are you ready?

00:21:33.33
Dan Shea
ah was born ready

00:21:34.75
Russell Gibson
The stage is set. shall i Shall I drum roll you in?

00:21:39.23
Dan Shea
ah Yes, please.

00:21:40.97
Andrew Lewis
I didn't get a drum roll.

00:21:41.46
Russell Gibson
Done.

00:21:43.46
Dan Shea
I didn't really get one either.

00:21:44.71
Russell Gibson
No, you got the... See, this is why Russell doesn't let me play with the buttons.

00:21:55.63
Russell Gibson
There we go.

00:21:56.75
Dan Shea
There With the third pick, I choose Kobe Bean Bryant.

00:22:02.16
Russell Gibson
Someone with some common sense. The world is not upside down.

00:22:04.86
Dan Shea
um

00:22:07.94
Dan Shea
I'm just thinking his parents must have been hungry when they named him, um, named after his, his dad's favorite steak. I'm actually not sure where the bean came from, but I'm pretty sure it's from his dad's nickname when he was playing jelly bean.

00:22:20.21
Russell Gibson
Jelly bean.

00:22:20.35
Dan Shea
Yes.

00:22:21.15
Russell Gibson
Yep.

00:22:22.52
Dan Shea
Um, and so I guess, you know, look as Andrew was kind of giving his preamble, um, for, uh, uh, for another great, uh, Lakers great.

00:22:36.18
Dan Shea
Um, they, they do have a lot in common. Um, I'll go through the, uh, the, the resume, um, another hall of famer, um, uh, dearly departed, um, Kobe Bryant, um, 18 time all-star two times scoring champ, five time NBA champ, 15 time all NBA, um,

00:22:56.44
Dan Shea
on made the all rookie team 12 times made the all defensive team four time all-star MVP. And actually i just ah tagging on this one. One of the things that really distinguished Kobe was how seriously he took the all-star game.

00:23:05.62
Andrew Lewis
Thank you.

00:23:09.55
Dan Shea
um

00:23:09.63
Russell Gibson
Yeah.

00:23:10.67
Dan Shea
And ah you know, to the point where um after, he passed, there was kind of in memoriam, the Elam ending was, was, was based on the numbers he used when he played, um, in part in honor of his, uh, contributions to the all-star game over time.

00:23:29.15
Dan Shea
Um, and in fact, you know, we've, we've talked on, um on ah three old guys talking ball about this a fair bit, about the various ways we might be able to try to, they might be able to solve the All-Star game and the fact that no one takes it very seriously.

00:23:47.94
Dan Shea
And i think when it really comes down to it, what they need is someone who cares about it as much as Kobe did because it made everyone else care.

00:23:55.59
Russell Gibson
Yeah. Yeah, I like that.

00:23:56.80
Dan Shea
um And um ah unfortunately, you can't really engineer that. um You have to wait for a player like that to come along. um Kobe did win an MVP.

00:24:10.21
Dan Shea
I think, as we've talked about before, um ah ad Ads certainly would be one of those advocates for one not being enough, ah based on Kobe's career.

00:24:11.00
Andrew Lewis
Okay.

00:24:19.97
Dan Shea
Two-time finals MVP. um And ah also made the and NBA 75 anniversary team. Unique amongst ah mba ah NBA players, though. Kobe also has an Oscar.

00:24:37.76
Russell Gibson
Yes, 2018. Yeah.

00:24:41.64
Dan Shea
um for his short film Dear Basketball. um So I guess I wanted to kind of ah open it up. I guess another thing that I always found ah kind of fun about um Kobe was he broke he broke all the all the rules when it came to nicknames because his most iconic nickname is the one he gave himself.

00:25:02.48
Dan Shea
But it it got took off. People use it. People still use it.

00:25:06.47
Russell Gibson
yeah

00:25:06.95
Dan Shea
People talk about the mamba mentality. And this is a nickname that Kobe, as a young, intensely competitive buck coming into the league, was, you you know, the um he was he was tugging on the warm-up, so to speak, trying to be in everything.

00:25:24.95
Dan Shea
um And there are all these stories about him, you know, um never having rapped before, trying to get into rap battles, trying to compete, trying to...

00:25:32.01
Andrew Lewis
Thank you.

00:25:34.18
Dan Shea
to kind of be in it and be part of it. This guy who gave himself this nickname embraced the role of villain and left an indelible mark on this league we all love.

00:25:47.66
Russell Gibson
Well put, very well put. Um, yeah im I'm just frantically searching because I've done so many Kobe cards on the pod.

00:25:57.92
Andrew Lewis
i can i can I can fill in the time while you were yeah be companies say coiess are.

00:26:03.29
Russell Gibson
I found one. It's definitely not. Yeah, go. What's your Kobe story?

00:26:09.28
Dan Shea
Get ready to pick up some thrown shade.

00:26:09.71
Andrew Lewis
worthy

00:26:11.11
Dan Shea
yeah

00:26:11.51
Andrew Lewis
gorby is a worthy um number three. was the number three on my list, um but he's a worthy one. um The difference between Kobe Bryant and Michael Jordan.

00:26:27.44
Andrew Lewis
is Michael Jordan was more physically gifted. That's the difference. That's the only difference. And the only reason why one wasn't as good as the other was because the work ethic, the competitiveness was, if there's a difference between the two of them, it is minimal.

00:26:43.34
Russell Gibson
Identical. um

00:26:45.06
Andrew Lewis
It is infinitesimal.

00:26:47.14
Russell Gibson
Yeah. There's no one that work harder than Kobe.

00:26:49.46
Andrew Lewis
Yeah.

00:26:50.22
Russell Gibson
look, I'll concede there was a level of natural talent that Jordan had.

00:26:51.57
Andrew Lewis
ah Yeah, I just think Michael Jordan was more naturally blessed.

00:26:58.74
Russell Gibson
True, and that's why the GOAT debate is such a – it's not even a debate. People have their opinions. I've picked a Kobe Bryant kaboom because you know what?

00:27:05.60
Andrew Lewis
All right.

00:27:08.44
Russell Gibson
We love talking about kabooms on the show. um i haven't picked this one. ive it's Well, sorry, I haven't talked about this one on the show. This is probably my favourite kaboom, and it's the 2019 Panini Crown Royale.

00:27:23.96
Russell Gibson
ah Number 16, Kaboom. Population is 14 on this one in a PSA 10. It last sold on July 17, 2025. Actually, I might have talked about this one on the show. For $42,900. $42,900.

00:27:37.60
Russell Gibson
for forty two thousand nine hundred dollars If you're looking to pick up a raw one and seeing if you can try your luck, these things, ah the last sold price, actually, this hasn't sold since 2022 raw, but it was sold in October 2022 for $2,500.

00:27:57.21
Russell Gibson
for two thousand five hundred dollars dollars bought card value says it'll go for a lot more now. Probably looking at roundabout, you're probably the five to six K mark raw.

00:28:13.75
Russell Gibson
I just thought I'd throw another Kobe Kaboom, you know, just for something different.

00:28:17.19
Andrew Lewis
And if I wanted it medium rare, much... Sorry. Bad joke.

00:28:24.42
Russell Gibson
I know people that have intentionally damaged cards.

00:28:24.35
Andrew Lewis
Ow.

00:28:26.26
Russell Gibson
We interviewed somebody on the show at a recent card show, and they're like, they intentionally damaged the cards to get them all in a PSA 1 so you could have a set, a unique set, pop count 1, full set PSA 1s.

00:28:35.58
Andrew Lewis
Ow.

00:28:39.07
Russell Gibson
But you have to like bend them and really make them bad to get a PSA 1. Anyway. It's me, isn't it?

00:28:47.50
Andrew Lewis
Don't recommend.

00:28:49.66
Russell Gibson
Don't recommend attempting to try and get PSA 1s.

00:28:52.81
Andrew Lewis
Yeah.

00:28:56.08
Russell Gibson
Every pick I feel like I'm torn. every Every pick.

00:28:58.24
Andrew Lewis
Yep.

00:28:59.81
Russell Gibson
And this is going to be a tough one for me because part of me wanted to pick... the late, the great Jerry West.

00:29:11.42
Russell Gibson
But I didn't. I wanted to go the the Lakers hat trick. But I didn't. I don't have the jersey on, but I have one. um

00:29:23.76
Russell Gibson
Number four. And this might be premature for you guys, but I think this man will be on Mount Rushmore eventually. And you talk about enjoying basketball And yes, Magic Johnson would be one of the greatest players to play alongside, I'm sure.

00:29:39.91
Andrew Lewis
There.

00:29:40.09
Russell Gibson
But I am going to put 11-time All-Star, 2015 steals champ, 11-time All-NBA. God, what do you get

00:29:53.52
Russell Gibson
2010-11 Sportsmanship Award, 75th Anniversary Player, Western Conference Finals MVP in 2021-22, two-time scoring champ, four-time NBA champ, 29-10 All-Rookie Team, two-time MVP, two-time All-Star MVP, and 21-22 Finals MVP.

00:30:16.64
Russell Gibson
It is Stephen Curry.

00:30:22.11
Russell Gibson
This man, you think Magic Johnson saved basketball? I kind of agree. Stephen Curry changed basketball.

00:30:34.21
Russell Gibson
and And I've given him the number four spot on the ranking. Above another Laker, which is a, for me, is is a big deal.

00:30:42.80
Andrew Lewis
Worth

00:30:44.56
Russell Gibson
big deal

00:30:45.95
Andrew Lewis
pointing out, Steph's 2016 MVP was unanimous.

00:30:50.99
Russell Gibson
Correct. Correct. um I remember the 90s because we are old guys and we love talking about basketball. I vividly remember remember the 90s and every second guy that had a basketball jersey wore a Michael Jordan jersey.

00:31:08.18
Russell Gibson
um From around 2015 to current day, the the the most common basketball jersey I see is Steph Curry. And that that is the... the The old guys of tomorrow, their Michael Jordan is Steph Curry.

00:31:27.40
Russell Gibson
The reason these kids don't want to dunk and they want to jack up threes is Steph and Curry. um So I feel like that kind of um tidal wave of influence on the game of basketball

00:31:43.10
Russell Gibson
itches him starts etching him onto the the Mount Rushmore of great basketballers. I'll throw to the floor before i while I look up a basketball card.

00:31:53.38
Andrew Lewis
Steph was my number three.

00:31:57.62
Dan Shea
I had, had, yeah, I had.

00:31:57.60
Russell Gibson
Nice.

00:31:57.62
Andrew Lewis
I had MJ magic Steph.

00:32:00.73
Russell Gibson
and then And then Kobe.

00:32:05.54
Russell Gibson
Was Kobe four?

00:32:07.01
Dan Shea
but

00:32:08.24
Russell Gibson
I'm cutting you out of this call. No, I'm not.

00:32:10.65
Andrew Lewis
Hey, can i just could I just trigger Adam for for a second?

00:32:10.92
Russell Gibson
I'm not going to get emotional.

00:32:15.15
Russell Gibson
and um no im No, I'm not angry, Andrew. I'm just disappointed.

00:32:20.49
Andrew Lewis
You're not surprised. There was a point...

00:32:22.02
Dan Shea
You sound a little angry.

00:32:23.38
Andrew Lewis
There was a point where I was doing my list where I had Kobe six.

00:32:30.25
Russell Gibson
Was that the high point?

00:32:30.51
Andrew Lewis
But no, it was the low point. He didn't stay at six.

00:32:33.42
Russell Gibson
and Fair, fair, fair. got to fifth.

00:32:36.20
Andrew Lewis
But I had Steph three.

00:32:38.76
Russell Gibson
I like it. I like Steph at three. I think that's a, yeah.

00:32:41.18
Andrew Lewis
And I think the argument, and don't know what to make this about, the reason is is the

00:32:48.74
Andrew Lewis
Kobe for all his excellence, all his... all his work ethic, all his competitiveness was a, a replicant or a replica, a replica of something we had seen before.

00:33:03.14
Andrew Lewis
Steph was the first, and he changed the game. So I think the, the, yeah, he also stands during the national anthem, Dan.

00:33:10.47
Dan Shea
not going to it off.

00:33:10.98
Russell Gibson
I like it. No, I like it. I like it. I like it.

00:33:19.68
Andrew Lewis
If you're going to mention that under your breath. Um, Yeah, so the legacy bit is really, really important as far as Steph's concerned because the game is different because of him.

00:33:32.32
Russell Gibson
Yeah. Yeah, I couldn couldn't have said it better myself. Like, it's he he has revolutionized basketball.

00:33:37.15
Andrew Lewis
Hmm.

00:33:41.87
Russell Gibson
And to have that kind of impact on the world, um I think is very special.

00:33:48.03
Andrew Lewis
Yeah.

00:33:50.13
Dan Shea
Mm-hmm.

00:33:50.38
Russell Gibson
Like it. um I'm going to pick a random Steph Curry card because he's ah he's everybody's player. So I'm going to pick sort of an everybody's card, I think. Oh, that's actually quite expensive. Let's not do that.

00:34:03.30
Russell Gibson
Okay. Oh, actually, no. i We'll go but the base versus the the the silver. that's ah That's a good comparison.

00:34:11.31
Andrew Lewis
Thank you.

00:34:12.25
Russell Gibson
All right, let's get let's bring this up. Stephen Curry, 2012 Prism, silver. Population count 36. Last sold November 2024 for $5,000. The peak of this card was during ah twenty twenty one twenty two when cards were going off the chart for crazy prices. It peaked at $14K, but it has stabilized recently in the last couple of years.

00:34:42.51
Russell Gibson
Last sold price, yeah, $5,000 for this one. little bit different on the base. Pop count's a lot higher. Last sold price for this in a PSA 10.

00:34:54.58
Russell Gibson
Population count, 822. Last sold $184. that's the base card.

00:34:59.37
Russell Gibson
so that's a base card

00:35:02.40
Russell Gibson
So yeah, Steph Curry, influential. And I still stand by the fact that collectors in 10 to 20 years time will be the next generation of old guys who grew up with Steph Curry and are looking to invest into their hero as a child. So uh,

00:35:24.66
Russell Gibson
Yes, I would urge people to consider Steph Curry as ah as a a sound investment moving forward. That man will be up on Mount Rushmore in no time.

00:35:35.10
Russell Gibson
That's me done for my pick. Actually, um probably now's a good time to to take another quick break.

00:35:42.61
Russell Gibson
And and we'll we'll come back. Who's the next one? Andrew's got the next pick.

00:35:47.47
Andrew Lewis
Yay.

00:35:47.90
Dan Shea
Bob Cousy, isn't

00:35:48.22
Russell Gibson
And we'll go with Andrew. All right.

00:35:54.92
Russell Gibson
And we're back. Andrew, you've had some time to deliberate. Have you made a pick?

00:36:00.82
Andrew Lewis
think we know what's coming. Come on. Everyone knows we know what's coming now that we've got Steph and Kobe and the other two of the way.

00:36:10.23
Dan Shea
it's bob cozy isn't it

00:36:11.46
Andrew Lewis
a

00:36:12.61
Russell Gibson
Spongebob. Yeah.

00:36:14.20
Andrew Lewis
Yeah, Kuzi's high on the list, but not quite as... He's not the top unselected player on my list at the moment.

00:36:19.85
Dan Shea
ah It's John Stockton.

00:36:19.86
Russell Gibson
but

00:36:20.98
Andrew Lewis
No, it's not.

00:36:21.22
Russell Gibson
You can accomplish listeners don't know don't know you're a Phoenix fan. It's Devin Booker, isn't it?

00:36:25.86
Andrew Lewis
No, it's not Devin Booker. It's... I'm sticking with guys who have the Presidential Medal of freedman and played Freedom and played for the Lakers. It's the most underrated player in NBA history.

00:36:38.35
Russell Gibson
So underrated that I've stitched him onto everybody's jersey.

00:36:38.66
Andrew Lewis
And... yeah And... Yep, and... the greatest argument against ring culture.

00:36:48.71
Russell Gibson
Ha, ha, ha, ha.

00:36:49.75
Andrew Lewis
Jerry West. Jerry West.

00:36:51.62
Russell Gibson
So is that why, you reckon underrated he was unforgettable, so everyone just stitched an image of him so they remembered him?

00:36:52.65
Andrew Lewis
um

00:36:58.03
Andrew Lewis
You have to explain it. It's like, who's that guy? you know if it was stick If it was Jordan and it was the stick man, they wouldn't require any explanation. That's fine. i'm not suggesting that Michael Jordan's underrated or overrated.

00:37:10.62
Andrew Lewis
um but West is forgotten in the discussion of the greatest guards because it's a team game and he was going up against, with the possible exception of the two titles they lost to the Knicks, but he's going up against the greatest winner in the history of team sports.

00:37:23.06
Russell Gibson
It's lack of jewelry.

00:37:36.60
Russell Gibson
fair point.

00:37:38.04
Andrew Lewis
it's you have to It's a contest. There's an another group of guys that they're trying to stop what you're trying to do. There's nothing more Jerry West could have done. There's no failure in Jerry West's performance.

00:37:48.76
Andrew Lewis
They called him Mr. Clutch despite the fact that he lost all those NBA finals. What, he loses the Celtics six times in the 60s or something like that? This is a guy who once hit a game-tying half-court shot in an NBA finals game Huffington.

00:38:06.35
Andrew Lewis
You know, as I just said, from half court, a shot that was worth only two points in those days because there was no three-point line.

00:38:08.97
Russell Gibson
crazy

00:38:15.41
Andrew Lewis
But, you know, this is a guy who was named to three and NBA anniversary teams, 35th anniversary, 50th anniversary, and 75th, a man who led the league in scoring and assists both past his prime, was four times all NBA defensive team,

00:38:15.58
Russell Gibson
That's pretty insane.

00:38:33.71
Andrew Lewis
10 times all NBA first team, second time, ah two times a second team, um and also won the Presidential Medal of Freeman. And then became one of the great um executives in the history of the NBA and the most hilariously entertaining character in winning time.

00:38:52.88
Andrew Lewis
um

00:38:54.25
Russell Gibson
you're You're right. You're very right on that one. Yeah.

00:38:56.40
Andrew Lewis
Jerry West, the only man who ever won an NBA your Finals MVP on the losing team.

00:38:56.86
Dan Shea
Thank you.

00:39:01.64
Andrew Lewis
Not the only one who should. because i'll I'll go to my grave saying LeBron should have won the 2015 finals MVP.

00:39:08.69
Russell Gibson
Yes.

00:39:08.77
Andrew Lewis
But

00:39:12.35
Andrew Lewis
just in a an incredible ah record of, on the court, of consistency over a long period of time. um And

00:39:26.77
Andrew Lewis
considering his backstory, just, you know, incredible.

00:39:29.32
Russell Gibson
Yeah.

00:39:31.20
Dan Shea
Ooh.

00:39:31.12
Andrew Lewis
So,

00:39:31.26
Russell Gibson
Yeah. Yeah.

00:39:33.41
Andrew Lewis
Jerry West, in my mind, is you know still one of the 15 greatest players in NBA history.

00:39:40.37
Russell Gibson
Yep. No doubt. No doubt whatsoever. um I've been grabbing him at five.

00:39:43.25
Andrew Lewis
And I'm very happy to grab him at five.

00:39:46.96
Russell Gibson
i i'm And because you've picked him at five, I'm going to, because I've been looking at some prices, a 1961 Fleer Jerry West number 43 5. fleir jerry west number forty three p sa five will set you back $1,740.

00:40:03.74
Russell Gibson
one thousand seven hundred and forty dollars The pop countt on that one is And

00:40:08.03
Dan Shea
Thank you.

00:40:08.42
Russell Gibson
and that is in a p s aa five so so

00:40:12.45
Andrew Lewis
and With the older cards, is it just much that much harder to find them in just absolutely excellent condition? so

00:40:18.15
Russell Gibson
for cut for For context, this card, is has there is no PSA 10 recorded on card ladder. ah The highest grade, pop count 28 of the PSA 9, that last in May 2025 for $70,150.

00:40:30.39
Russell Gibson
that is an old indeed. But...

00:40:38.22
Russell Gibson
so and that is an old card indeed but Any basketball card you got will have Jerry West, the logo on it because he is in fact the and NBA logo. So anything that's got the NBA logo has our man Jerry West on it.

00:40:55.11
Andrew Lewis
No changing the logo, people.

00:40:57.96
Russell Gibson
No changing the logo.

00:40:58.10
Andrew Lewis
Don't you do it, Adam Silver.

00:40:59.26
Russell Gibson
Okay,

00:41:00.35
Andrew Lewis
Anyway.

00:41:02.23
Russell Gibson
number six.

00:41:05.28
Dan Shea
um So I'm, on the one hand, I'm pleased that he's kind of fallen this far. On the other hand, it's kind of hard to argue with the yeah with the five guys we have collectively ahead of him.

00:41:20.44
Dan Shea
um But with the sixth pick, I am ah very happy to take Oscar Robertson, the big O Mr. Triple Double, ah also known as Oscar the Grouch, apparently.

00:41:32.85
Russell Gibson
oh Or Oscar Russell Westbrook. Oh, whoops.

00:41:39.25
Russell Gibson
I had to. I had to. I had to.

00:41:40.70
Andrew Lewis
On the behalf of Oscars everywhere, having you made that joke, Adam, I have to say,

00:41:41.22
Russell Gibson
Sorry.

00:41:46.37
Andrew Lewis
Scram!

00:41:49.33
Russell Gibson
Fair, fair.

00:41:53.90
Dan Shea
um So in an era where careers tended to be a little shorter, a 12-time All-Star, six-time Assist Champ.

00:42:00.55
Russell Gibson
And plate in players were shorter.

00:42:04.73
Dan Shea
Well, Oscar was six five So, um yeah.

00:42:08.26
Russell Gibson
Okay.

00:42:10.25
Dan Shea
So six-time Assist Champ, 11-time All-NBA, three-time All-Star MVP, Rookie of the Year in 60-61, MVP in 63-64, mvp ah in sixty three sixty four Um, you know, and then of course made the, uh, the NBA at 50 75, um,

00:42:35.36
Dan Shea
averaged a triple double, um, uh, over, ah over a full season and came pretty, uh, pretty close to it for, the for the career. Um, uh, described as being, uh,

00:42:49.72
Dan Shea
you know one of the best all-round players um around um by no less than former teammate Kareem Abdul-Jabbar. um But well after his retirement, so he'd had a chance to see MJ and others.

00:43:04.33
Dan Shea
um And um yeah, just just an amazing player. um Talk about kind of, I guess, underrated these days. his Become name we you don't hear that much anymore.

00:43:15.70
Dan Shea
um And um I think this is a you know a good a good opportunity to shine a bit of light on this um on this guy.

00:43:21.42
Russell Gibson
Yeah, yeah, Obviously, his name got floated around a lot. um We've been around when 10 years ago, when Russell Westbrook was dropping his triple, averaging his triple doubles and whatnot. So that's when we everyone got reminded this isn't the first time someone's averaged a triple double for a whole season.

00:43:42.46
Dan Shea
Hmm.

00:43:42.92
Andrew Lewis
Also worth pointing out, also worth pointing out just before um that awful bit of libel needs to be responded to about stat padding.

00:43:43.06
Russell Gibson
Do you think stat padding? Yeah.

00:43:53.98
Andrew Lewis
Oscar's the reason why and NBA players are able to be free agents.

00:43:58.59
Russell Gibson
Yeah.

00:43:58.75
Andrew Lewis
ah Sort of the reason why they make kajillions. they they should They all need to thank Oscar for taking the NBA to court and

00:44:08.57
Andrew Lewis
getting their rights back in terms of not being tied to a team ah for which they no longer have a contract.

00:44:11.93
Russell Gibson
Yeah.

00:44:14.14
Andrew Lewis
So...

00:44:17.04
Russell Gibson
Did Oscar have anything to do with the new aprons and all the other salary cap stuff? Because um ah I want to ask him how did the formula works, but.

00:44:29.74
Russell Gibson
No.

00:44:29.76
Andrew Lewis
He's pretty awful.

00:44:29.94
Russell Gibson
um

00:44:30.56
Andrew Lewis
don't know if he would, you know, people... It's a lot to get your head around.

00:44:35.42
Russell Gibson
It's true. It's true. i'm sure AI could figure it out. um

00:44:38.46
Dan Shea
I think the guy to ask would be probably Sam Presti.

00:44:41.87
Russell Gibson
That's a good idea. Yeah.

00:44:43.22
Andrew Lewis
You said ai could figure it out. I don't, I just looked, I didn't think we were gonna get an Iverson mention this early.

00:44:52.73
Dan Shea
Well, he's just practicing.

00:44:57.20
Russell Gibson
Clever, clever.

00:44:57.63
Dan Shea
He's just practicing. He's just practicing.

00:45:00.16
Russell Gibson
Yeah, exactly. needs see yeah All right, all right. Now I'm just going to sit.

00:45:03.27
Andrew Lewis
Wait a sec.

00:45:04.65
Russell Gibson
That was a segue with a segue. Two bad jokes. that was This is good. Keep going.

00:45:08.77
Andrew Lewis
We're not even talking about the game.

00:45:12.00
Russell Gibson
Not even talking about stats.

00:45:14.00
Andrew Lewis
Talk to us about some Oscar cards.

00:45:16.35
Russell Gibson
Yes, let's talk about Oscar cards. Now. since he's Since he's at number six, I'm going to stick with the the the PSA. I'm going to put up on the screen for all those playing at home.

00:45:27.83
Russell Gibson
The Oscar Robertson 1961 Fleer PSA 6, which has a pop count of 248. That's a lot of them in existence.

00:45:39.20
Russell Gibson
Price over the last two years has been relatively good. It's been it's actually up 42% over a two-year period. Last sold. On June 28th this year for $2013 US. So if got to spare a spare $2,000 US s and you're in the market for Oscar Robertson, this is the card for you.

00:46:00.95
Andrew Lewis
Also a good way to sort of like get, I am an NBA inside Homer cred.

00:46:07.55
Russell Gibson
Yeah, that's true.

00:46:07.72
Andrew Lewis
Like an Oscar Robertson's card, like you must have some strong opinions about basketball.

00:46:15.30
Russell Gibson
Yes, and I would be asking him for their views on Russell Westbrook's triple-double season. Or Jokic's.

00:46:23.49
Andrew Lewis
We might get a Westbrook mention later, who knows?

00:46:27.67
Russell Gibson
Do you really think my number 10 pick is going to be Russell Westbrook?

00:46:30.64
Andrew Lewis
of been I've got a list in front of me and rest books on it.

00:46:32.15
Russell Gibson
your Who knows?

00:46:34.12
Andrew Lewis
So

00:46:34.96
Russell Gibson
But you've got a list of 20. wrote nine.

00:46:37.01
Andrew Lewis
so

00:46:39.83
Andrew Lewis
I do the work, Adam.

00:46:41.30
Russell Gibson
i wrote nine

00:46:43.25
Andrew Lewis
We're picking 10 players, Adam.

00:46:46.29
Russell Gibson
Yeah, but i figured you guys would pick some other stuff that I'd...

00:46:48.05
Andrew Lewis
feel you like I don't need to write Kobe down because I'm going to remember that. So um I'll write down the other nine.

00:46:55.04
Russell Gibson
Fair. Fair.

00:46:56.58
Andrew Lewis
Okay.

00:46:58.76
Russell Gibson
Who's got number seven?

00:46:59.19
Dan Shea
I've got 34. i've got thirty four

00:47:00.06
Andrew Lewis
You do.

00:47:01.58
Russell Gibson
Oh, that's me. Lucky number seven.

00:47:03.32
Andrew Lewis
You get the, yeah.

00:47:06.75
Russell Gibson
All right.

00:47:07.99
Andrew Lewis
I reckon this is where they get interesting because I was saying before we started recording to Adam, I think there's an unimpeachable top six and we've just selected all of them.

00:47:12.13
Russell Gibson
I think...

00:47:15.46
Russell Gibson
think I think we have selected the top six verbatim in ah in a different order-ish.

00:47:15.82
Andrew Lewis
Yeah.

00:47:16.68
Dan Shea
Reeves.

00:47:22.30
Andrew Lewis
yeah

00:47:23.11
Russell Gibson
This is where do I throw one or two spanners is my question.

00:47:30.96
Russell Gibson
and i And I think I'm going to throw the spanner rather than go with the obvious one. And I

00:47:39.84
Russell Gibson
i don't know if this is going to be popular or unpopular.

00:47:42.88
Dan Shea
austin rees

00:47:42.78
Andrew Lewis
Where's the drum roll?

00:47:44.97
Russell Gibson
I've got it. Hang on, hang on.

00:47:51.31
Russell Gibson
I'll be selecting Steve Nash at number seven.

00:47:55.00
Andrew Lewis
um

00:47:55.74
Dan Shea
Oh. o

00:47:58.62
Russell Gibson
Famous for the Nash dribble and stealing one of kobe Kobe's MVPs.

00:48:05.33
Andrew Lewis
Oh! Steve Lesh.

00:48:11.12
Russell Gibson
I...

00:48:11.31
Andrew Lewis
Paddy is very happy.

00:48:14.62
Russell Gibson
i I think he didn't really... i think the lack of... The lack of a championship is what is what cost him. um Five-time assist champ, eight-time all-star, seven-time all-NBA, two-time MVP.

00:48:32.68
Russell Gibson
You'd almost call him lucky or unlucky number 13. But yes, Steve Nash, an amazing and incredible, an incredible point guard and...

00:48:43.75
Andrew Lewis
and And for now, for now, still the greatest NBA player ever to come out of Canada.

00:48:53.82
Russell Gibson
ah for For some time, might I add.

00:48:54.67
Dan Shea
but

00:49:00.25
Andrew Lewis
Dad, did you have a list? Yeah. Oh, okay.

00:49:03.77
Russell Gibson
I think Dan's still in shock.

00:49:06.05
Dan Shea
a I had a list. I have a list.

00:49:09.11
Andrew Lewis
yeah

00:49:09.68
Dan Shea
um I have more than 30 players on that list hum because I was trying to account for variants and also like, can I count that guy?

00:49:11.98
Andrew Lewis
ah okay

00:49:17.71
Dan Shea
They played some time at two guard. They played some time at at at um at small forward. I've color coded

00:49:25.15
Andrew Lewis
The psychologist overthought it.

00:49:25.47
Dan Shea
um Yeah, you better believe it.

00:49:28.24
Russell Gibson
I feel like this the case. Is in the top 10? Locked.

00:49:31.40
Dan Shea
You better believe it.

00:49:31.41
Russell Gibson
um

00:49:32.66
Dan Shea
um I mean, Nash was on my list, um but my list is pretty long.

00:49:36.58
Russell Gibson
he in the top ten

00:49:39.16
Dan Shea
um Let me see. two, three, four, five, six.

00:49:44.78
Andrew Lewis
He's have to take his shoes off to get class 10.

00:49:45.69
Dan Shea
that ah just Just outside, but it's... You know, as we were saying, you know, like the the the the top six are pretty much, you know, put them in ah put them in a hat, shake them up a bit, um anchor MJ at one, probably shake the rest of them up.

00:49:56.40
Russell Gibson
walked

00:50:04.25
Dan Shea
And, you know, like that's essentially what we got. The rest of it, there's so much variance. ah One of the reasons I wanted to make a longer list was that I, one, I knew that at some point there was going to be, ah ah someone was going to be upsetting some Apple carts.

00:50:19.50
Dan Shea
And two,

00:50:19.91
Russell Gibson
There's always one.

00:50:21.66
Dan Shea
And two, I wanted to kind of give myself the option of impulsively upsetting the apple cart too, if any, if no one else had done it first. Um, so I was giving myself options. I mean, look, um, Steve Nash, awesome player.

00:50:35.28
Dan Shea
And honestly, i think would actually have a bigger place in history if he just shot the ball more.

00:50:43.05
Russell Gibson
Yeah, I tend to agree.

00:50:44.99
Dan Shea
Um, I mean that, that gravity, when you've got,

00:50:45.56
Russell Gibson
Yep.

00:50:49.61
Dan Shea
um Amari Stoddermeyer and Sean Marion kind of running for, you know, running for lobs and fast breaks. Like, it's just, you know, in the end, this guy had a career average of about 14 points a game, but you could easily have averaged 20 plus, right?

00:50:59.72
Russell Gibson
Yeah.

00:51:09.44
Dan Shea
You know, um and and still have really played that, you know,

00:51:09.70
Russell Gibson
like Great. Yeah.

00:51:14.04
Dan Shea
mostly pass first game um in that in that era. um And so, you know, I don't ah don't hate it. i am i um I actually think that, um I mean, he's hiss base been one of my favorite.

00:51:27.18
Russell Gibson
It's funny you say that because, yeah, the player i was going to choose also it did have a lower scoring average.

00:51:35.53
Dan Shea
Hmm.

00:51:36.62
Andrew Lewis
So, listeners

00:51:37.04
Russell Gibson
The person I was torn on.

00:51:41.24
Andrew Lewis
on Three Old Guys Talking Ball know, it's it wellest established i'm a huge Phoenix fan. um Steve Nash is probably my second favourite son of all time, and behind the guy who was the son's best player when I started following them, um Charles Barkley.

00:51:59.27
Russell Gibson
Oh, so it's not Kevin Durant?

00:52:00.99
Andrew Lewis
No, it's really not Kevin Drey.

00:52:01.86
Russell Gibson
No.

00:52:03.07
Andrew Lewis
I had Nash at 16.

00:52:08.29
Russell Gibson
Well, you guys are wrong, clearly.

00:52:09.27
Andrew Lewis
so So over some other players who may have had similar levels of final success, but may have had yeah know more recent stat-filled careers,

00:52:17.84
Russell Gibson
i just, I do.

00:52:28.51
Russell Gibson
Mm-hmm.

00:52:29.23
Dan Shea
I mean, I had him barely out of the barely out of my tent. I had him at 12, but

00:52:33.10
Russell Gibson
and And I've got, yeah, look, I guess there's a, I call it a little bit of bias towards Nash.

00:52:33.53
Dan Shea
ah

00:52:37.86
Russell Gibson
He's also drafted in that very famous Kobe Bryant class. um So the car I picked was obviously his 1996 tops Chrome.

00:52:43.05
Dan Shea
Yep.

00:52:47.90
Russell Gibson
Not quite...

00:52:47.96
Andrew Lewis
One of the great rookie classes of all time.

00:52:50.65
Russell Gibson
not Definitely not the the same price or such as as the late, great Kobe Bryant. Pop count on this one is $166, though. His rookie card, Topps Chrome, last sold $975. It is down a little bit over the last couple of years. So for under $1,000, you can own a Topps Chrome Steve Nash rookie card.

00:53:14.97
Russell Gibson
Wow.

00:53:15.18
Andrew Lewis
Well, he did just start a podcast with LeBron, so that's probably just started to have a little bit of a downward effect on the value of his rookie card.

00:53:21.02
Russell Gibson
Yes, yes. And also probably part of the other bias thing, just the Laker factor and All

00:53:28.89
Andrew Lewis
I'd like a career go for Steve Nash, by the way.

00:53:32.59
Russell Gibson
right, who's got the eighth pick?

00:53:35.11
Andrew Lewis
That would be me.

00:53:35.24
Dan Shea
you

00:53:37.06
Andrew Lewis
And because you didn't select this guy, um I now um get to be all really three old guys.

00:53:50.75
Andrew Lewis
And it was a pleasure watching this guy um who's still alive um talking during the fantastic HBO documentary series, Celtic City.

00:54:04.52
Andrew Lewis
um

00:54:05.25
Dan Shea
Thank you.

00:54:08.42
Andrew Lewis
He also has the Presidential Medal of Freedom and he won it the same year as Jerry West. So six time NBA champion, the NBA's most favorite player nine in 1957, 13 time all star, 10 time all NBA first team, um eight time NBA all assist leader. This guy's on four NBA anniversary teams, 25th, 35th, 50th and 75th.

00:54:30.70
Andrew Lewis
Also won a college title at Holy Cross. um And again, like magic with my second pick, A guy who changed the game.

00:54:41.80
Andrew Lewis
The game was played at a specific

00:54:48.03
Andrew Lewis
turgid pace before this guy came along and changed basketball forever by basically popularizing the fast break.

00:54:56.44
Russell Gibson
Slowing it down.

00:54:59.02
Andrew Lewis
And that is... Robert Joseph Cousy. Bob Cousy is my selection here. ah Career 18.7.5 assists, 5-2 rebounds.

00:55:06.62
Russell Gibson
Bob losing.

00:55:09.99
Andrew Lewis
But those were real assists in those days. You didn't get assists if the guy took a dribble. If he bounced it once, you didn't get the assists.

00:55:16.72
Russell Gibson
Yeah.

00:55:18.38
Andrew Lewis
You had to pass it to them and then they had to score. You had to set them up.

00:55:21.53
Russell Gibson
So he played netball.

00:55:21.54
Andrew Lewis
You to do whatever. had to set the tape. basically had to cut the pieces of food up and put them in your mouth to get the assists back in those days.

00:55:28.99
Russell Gibson
Hang on. Are you saying he played netball is what you're telling me?

00:55:32.86
Andrew Lewis
but Well, was closer than you would have thought in those days before he came along. So...

00:55:40.10
Russell Gibson
I like it you showing it.

00:55:41.80
Andrew Lewis
And he's one of the...

00:55:43.08
Russell Gibson
You're showing how much of an old guy talking ball you are.

00:55:45.27
Andrew Lewis
Yeah. Yeah.

00:55:48.20
Dan Shea
You

00:55:48.35
Andrew Lewis
And...

00:55:51.48
Andrew Lewis
Again, a forgotten superstar of the league because... <unk> i don't think because ah the lack of of team success the way Jerry West was, but just the fact that He played so long ago. I mean, he retired in 1963.

00:56:05.83
Andrew Lewis
nineteen sixty three um There's just very little there's very little footage um that exists of Koozie playing, but yeah, but he the footage that does exist of him makes him look like he's playing against witches hats and light light poles, because he just runs rings around him.

00:56:08.45
Russell Gibson
Yeah. Yeah.

00:56:16.37
Dan Shea
I mean, he was he was Bill Russell's vet.

00:56:19.51
Russell Gibson
Yeah.

00:56:25.07
Russell Gibson
yeah and

00:56:28.69
Dan Shea
Mm-hmm.

00:56:31.03
Andrew Lewis
But for yeah, i um I hate Koozie at seven, so I was happy to snap him up at eight.

00:56:38.07
Russell Gibson
Excellent. I have found a PSA 8 Bob Cousy card. You wouldn't believe it, but I have.

00:56:43.54
Andrew Lewis
PSA eight. Jeez.

00:56:46.18
Russell Gibson
It's tough. It's tough as you get down the the hype, finding the higher grade of the oldest stuff. But 1957 tops, Bob Cousy, Boston Celtics, PSA 8, last sold for $28,300.

00:57:07.77
Russell Gibson
And that was on Star Wars Day 2024.

00:57:07.99
Dan Shea
Whoa.

00:57:11.08
Russell Gibson
So May the 4th, 2024, sold for $28,300. There are 37 of these in existence.

00:57:20.69
Andrew Lewis
Yeah, and this is a guy who, his rookie year was 1950. So but that's, that's,

00:57:25.73
Russell Gibson
Yeah, yeah. cards but Cards were not often, like not frequently printed back in back in those days.

00:57:30.71
Andrew Lewis
yeah.

00:57:31.74
Russell Gibson
But yeah, insane, right?

00:57:34.18
Andrew Lewis
That's before rock and roll.

00:57:37.39
Russell Gibson
ah

00:57:41.09
Russell Gibson
think in context of back to the future.

00:57:43.27
Andrew Lewis
Yeah, it's like Joseph Stalin is alive. That's how long it was ago.

00:57:48.38
Russell Gibson
It's a while back. It is a while back.

00:57:49.36
Andrew Lewis
Yeah.

00:57:50.81
Russell Gibson
ah We might take a last break very quickly and then come back with our last couple before we we wrap up and and round up the top 10. So we'll be back in a moment.

00:58:06.77
Russell Gibson
And we are back. I'm hearing jingling. Is your cat going crazy, Andrew?

00:58:13.23
Andrew Lewis
he doesn't He didn't like the koozie pick.

00:58:14.31
Russell Gibson
Was. I thought i was still losing it over Nash.

00:58:18.31
Andrew Lewis
what He thought Kemba Walker should have gone higher. yeah Bobcats legend.

00:58:22.03
Russell Gibson
Yeah, true.

00:58:22.11
Andrew Lewis
Represent.

00:58:23.15
Russell Gibson
Dennis Schroeder? Achievement, played for, like, United the Power Stones, played for all 30 NBA teams.

00:58:27.93
Andrew Lewis
was trying to make a cat joke. but

00:58:29.92
Russell Gibson
Yeah. Well, i thought i thought Dan would jump in with the Karl-Anthony Towns reference.

00:58:38.41
Andrew Lewis
When we draft the 10 greatest shooting big men at all time.

00:58:41.83
Russell Gibson
shoot shooting big men of all time.

00:58:42.67
Andrew Lewis
he it He's still not going number one.

00:58:48.76
Russell Gibson
Oh, goodness gracious.

00:58:50.88
Andrew Lewis
Listen for the subsequent pods.

00:58:51.51
Dan Shea
hes

00:58:53.11
Andrew Lewis
go Google three old guys talking ball because when we draft the top 10 forwards and the top 10 centers, we're not going to draft Karl-Anthony Towns.

00:58:53.49
Dan Shea
He's a T-Wolf no longer.

00:59:01.00
Andrew Lewis
Border all alert.

00:59:02.71
Russell Gibson
Even if we're we're rating them on shooting and three and three point contests.

00:59:04.98
Andrew Lewis
Well, I put him in the top... I put him in the three old guys top 15. I had to give the pro and it was like, what are you, what are we doing anyway?

00:59:11.24
Russell Gibson
And ridiculed. Why is he here? Anyway, number nine. Drum roll for Dan. but day

00:59:24.82
Dan Shea
So with the ninth pick, um I am going to go for the, well, I guess it's probably not that controversial a choice, really. um Zeke, Isaiah Lord Thomas III, the baby faced assassin before Steph.

00:59:42.79
Dan Shea
ah um Resume, Hall of Fame, of course. 84, 85 assist champ, 12-time All-Star, two-time back-to-back and NBA champ, five-time All-NBA, made the All-Rookie team, All-Star MVP twice, finals MVP, one of those two championships, and of course, on the NBA 75th anniversary team, and the most notable omission from the original Dream Team.

01:00:15.21
Russell Gibson
was going to say, didn't.

01:00:15.27
Andrew Lewis
By the criteria, by the criteria, he qualified.

01:00:23.57
Russell Gibson
Not mad. No one was offended by that.

01:00:26.37
Andrew Lewis
Well, except Isaiah.

01:00:29.32
Russell Gibson
Michael Jordan wasn't offended.

01:00:29.54
Dan Shea
He took that.

01:00:30.52
Russell Gibson
he didn't take a personal.

01:00:34.10
Dan Shea
um So, ah yeah, I mean, look, I think.

01:00:39.00
Russell Gibson
You're killing me. I thought you were going to pick someone else. You're killing me.

01:00:44.32
Dan Shea
Ah, maybe someone.

01:00:45.17
Russell Gibson
youre You are such a Zeke homer, aren't you?

01:00:45.52
Dan Shea
ah but

01:00:49.75
Dan Shea
but maybe Maybe thought I was going to pick someone that I say had drafted to that all time team back in the day.

01:00:55.70
Russell Gibson
Oh, like Dwayne Wade. D-Wade would have been a good pick.

01:00:57.66
Dan Shea
Perhaps.

01:00:59.91
Russell Gibson
I don't Like, yeah.

01:01:01.52
Andrew Lewis
Zeke was the top name left on my board.

01:01:05.84
Dan Shea
Hmm.

01:01:06.65
Russell Gibson
I've got one name left on. before And I was like, if he yeah, I was going to pick Luka with 10.

01:01:16.43
Russell Gibson
I was going to, and now I can't.

01:01:16.63
Dan Shea
I

01:01:18.24
Russell Gibson
So, oh, well. Anyway, back to i back to Zeke.

01:01:20.31
Dan Shea
think.

01:01:21.30
Russell Gibson
I don't want a steal his thunder and have a documentary written about it.

01:01:27.11
Dan Shea
Um, you know, and look, I think as a, as a player that size being very clearly the leader of that team, um, and, uh, really, I found it really interesting, right? Because during the, uh, during the playing career, very much embracing that villain role post career, kind of doing all sorts of stuff to try to, you know, shift that, shift that perception.

01:01:54.36
Russell Gibson
Fair.

01:01:54.61
Dan Shea
Um, Uh, but, um, you know, and an absolutely amazing player, uh, tough as nails, um, uh, super competitive, um, could get to the basket at any time he wanted to and didn't because it was better for the team.

01:02:13.37
Dan Shea
Um, you know, it was not a league wide. That was not a popular, that was not a popular dynasty. Right.

01:02:20.03
Russell Gibson
Yeah, not afraid to have his pimp hands strong either, dude.

01:02:20.64
Dan Shea
Um,

01:02:23.67
Russell Gibson
Sorry.

01:02:24.01
Dan Shea
Sorry, um

01:02:28.81
Dan Shea
sorry i just got that.

01:02:33.25
Russell Gibson
Oh, God.

01:02:33.42
Dan Shea
you But love and hate him and plenty hate him. um It's impossible to really deny his um his legitimacy, the the legitimacy of his place on a list like this.

01:02:44.49
Russell Gibson
yeah True, true.

01:02:48.47
Dan Shea
Pleased to get him at nine and... um

01:02:50.42
Russell Gibson
I like to push him down as far as we can.

01:02:51.14
Dan Shea
and

01:02:52.14
Russell Gibson
I'm i'm glad at least he didn't go in the top eight.

01:02:55.47
Dan Shea
Yeah. But, you know, it would have been it would have been a strange list if you hadn't made the top 10, is all I'm saying.

01:03:02.40
Andrew Lewis
I think what Adam's trying to tell you, Dan, is that if you hadn't have selected, he wouldn't have got selected.

01:03:02.88
Russell Gibson
i would I would have been...

01:03:08.57
Russell Gibson
That's correct. There's no way I was picking him.

01:03:09.57
Andrew Lewis
Yeah.

01:03:09.74
Dan Shea
Hmm.

01:03:11.09
Russell Gibson
I was trying...

01:03:11.34
Andrew Lewis
He was going to pick, Adam was going to pick Christian later instead.

01:03:17.28
Russell Gibson
ah Well, actually, I'll say glaring omission, because I know who I'm picking at 10, will be Clyde Drexler, actually, over Zeke.

01:03:29.61
Russell Gibson
oversea

01:03:31.98
Russell Gibson
there's i have there's ah There's a player I have to pick at 10 now.

01:03:35.40
Dan Shea
Mm-hmm.

01:03:35.48
Andrew Lewis
Okay, but is there an Isaiah card, Adam?

01:03:37.98
Russell Gibson
raise There is. There is a PSA 9 1986 Fleer. um You know, the iconic set. ah Last sold. It's it's not it's not going for for a quarter of a million dollars like the Michael Jordan.

01:03:53.67
Russell Gibson
um This has a pop count of $1,344. Last sold only a couple of days ago, the of August.

01:03:59.96
Andrew Lewis
yeah

01:04:00.44
Russell Gibson
oh a day ago. on the of August, twenty twenty five but three hundred and fifty dollars um yeah

01:04:09.10
Andrew Lewis
i I've heard properties in Detroit have been diminishing in value.

01:04:16.04
Russell Gibson
But, yeah, like it's a it's it's a decent – it's his first appearance. It's a rookie card. um So the 86 Fleer, Isaiah Thomas, PSA 9 for the number 9 pick. If you're a fan, pick one up. I mean, if you want to go with the PSA 10, pop count on that. It's 201.

01:04:32.08
Russell Gibson
And the last sold price is $3,840. But, yeah yeah, definitely not the most popular card from that that series.

01:04:44.15
Dan Shea
Cool.

01:04:44.86
Russell Gibson
The MJ being the grail of basketball cards, of course. Yes. Yes. um Now, look, I'm going to lead this in now that I'm not picking Luka Doncic as a goof.

01:04:59.81
Andrew Lewis
Good.

01:05:00.13
Russell Gibson
um

01:05:03.15
Russell Gibson
Now, we're talking about the greatest guards of all time. And i I think it would be a disservice to the greatest guards of all time if we don't acknowledge probably the most important stat that guards are synonymous with?

01:05:24.64
Russell Gibson
Turnovers. No. No. ah The stat obviously being assists. And funnily enough, some yeah, obviously you picked Isaiah. There's someone that you picked in your all-time list last time we did the simulation i will also be picking my starting point guard for that simulation funnily enough because steph curry came off the bench this is like five years ago um yes i'm picking john stockton with the number 10 pick uh one of the greatest point guards uh

01:06:04.56
Russell Gibson
was the unfortunate, I suppose, victim of the Michael Jordan era being denied championships.

01:06:14.30
Russell Gibson
But yes, John Stockton, I think, one of the greatest points point guards. ah He is the the the all-time leader in assists, I believe.

01:06:27.27
Russell Gibson
Isn't he?

01:06:27.41
Andrew Lewis
And steals. Adam, considering I'm now appearing on a different podcast, can I have a minute it to talk to the young people who are listening?

01:06:29.66
Russell Gibson
Yes. Yes.

01:06:35.57
Russell Gibson
You can go for it, please, please.

01:06:36.37
Andrew Lewis
Yeah.

01:06:37.73
Russell Gibson
Story time with Andrew.

01:06:37.69
Andrew Lewis
So, listen here, whippersnappers. What you need to do as a service is Google... or YouTube searches YouTube, John Stockton, Gary Payton, and hear Gary Payton talk about who his toughest opponent was, because he doesn't see, and he gets pressed on this. He says, dot why isn't it Michael Jordan?

01:06:57.95
Andrew Lewis
And he explains why, in Gary Payton's view, his toughest opponent was John

01:07:05.89
Russell Gibson
That doesn't surprise me at all in the slightest.

01:07:09.98
Dan Shea
and

01:07:10.74
Andrew Lewis
The too-long-didn't-read version of that is efficiency.

01:07:17.05
Russell Gibson
Yeah.

01:07:19.91
Andrew Lewis
dr also Stockton also physically made me look like Alice Cooper.

01:07:20.05
Dan Shea
When you finish that,

01:07:25.08
Andrew Lewis
Okay? So, do you think I'm a, if I look like a white middle-aged dork, I get nothing on this guy. This is the last guy who wore, he wore short shorts in the late late nineteen ninety s

01:07:32.61
Russell Gibson
Hey, yeah.

01:07:37.52
Russell Gibson
He, yeah, yeah. John Stockton, 1,500 game career. Average less points, obviously, than than Steve Nash, who I picked it at seven.

01:07:50.09
Russell Gibson
But had a career average of 10.5 assists per game. Shot the ball at 51.5% from the like average field goal percentage. His, I don't know, i feel like if he wasn't in the brunt of the Jordan era, he would have had a better crack at a title with Malone.

01:08:17.56
Russell Gibson
Like he is involved in some of the greatest NBA finals with against MJ and those crazy, crazy, crazy good bulls.

01:08:29.82
Russell Gibson
Yeah. There's nothing more I can say. The guy the guy who was incredible. As far as point guards go you've got to pay homage to him. He's not the the flashiest bloke in history, but it's like picking... It's like wanting Luka Doncic to be the face of the league and realizing it's Nikola Jokic.

01:08:46.26
Russell Gibson
It's...

01:08:46.35
Dan Shea
in In fact, he's got, you know, there's a legitimate case. I mean, you're so efficient. There's a legitimate case. He might be the least flashy guy in NBA history or one of them.

01:08:55.10
Russell Gibson
Yes.

01:08:55.58
Dan Shea
Right.

01:08:56.24
Russell Gibson
Yeah. More fundamental than the big fundamental.

01:08:57.83
Dan Shea
um

01:08:57.90
Andrew Lewis
It's Chris Dudley, but anyway.

01:09:02.27
Dan Shea
Okay. Okay.

01:09:07.01
Russell Gibson
But yes, um I actually haven't got a rookie card for for John Stockton.

01:09:07.49
Dan Shea
Excellent call.

01:09:12.91
Russell Gibson
ah Funnily enough, I've got it.

01:09:15.28
Andrew Lewis
He didn't allow photographs.

01:09:17.59
Russell Gibson
Well, no, it's a 1984 star john John Stockton, but it's a BGS 9.5 or PSA 9. I'm going to go with the the higher value.

01:09:27.98
Russell Gibson
So it's a PSA 9 due to PSA being absolutely dominant in the card world. ah Yeah, pop count on this is 21. Last sold for $4,920. Yeah,

01:09:42.19
Russell Gibson
pretty cool card. John Stockton, definitely not the most flashy bloke on the court. That's for sure.

01:09:49.95
Russell Gibson
Crazy.

01:09:50.24
Andrew Lewis
so So, yeah, he was the next on my board. um So you've already given the game away that the best player on your list who wasn't selected was Drexler.

01:10:02.94
Andrew Lewis
um

01:10:03.10
Russell Gibson
Yes.

01:10:03.97
Andrew Lewis
Dan, do you have who was the best player not selected?

01:10:10.85
Dan Shea
Well, ah

01:10:15.20
Dan Shea
not as obvious, not ah not as clean an answer because I guess it depends a bit, right? Like, honestly, in terms of highest peak, I still think Dwayne Wade is a really kind of notable exclusion.

01:10:26.35
Russell Gibson
I like Wade as a pick. Yeah, yeah.

01:10:27.96
Dan Shea
um

01:10:27.99
Russell Gibson
Fair.

01:10:29.06
Dan Shea
In terms of ah sustained excellence, it's, you know, Chris Paul is up there.

01:10:41.39
Russell Gibson
Yep.

01:10:41.99
Dan Shea
there's there's a

01:10:42.29
Russell Gibson
there's ah There's a case to be made.

01:10:45.14
Dan Shea
There's a part of me that really, really wanted to see AI somewhere.

01:10:49.89
Russell Gibson
How interesting would it be if it was a top 20?

01:10:52.48
Dan Shea
Yeah. Yeah.

01:10:54.79
Andrew Lewis
The end is a really interesting argument. So mean, yeah, I mean, my 20th was how great. So, and I, didn and I didn't have Dom.

01:11:02.27
Dan Shea
Yep.

01:11:03.23
Russell Gibson
Look, I've got Jontic because of purely because with cards, everybody's paying his future.

01:11:03.83
Andrew Lewis
Yeah. um

01:11:08.20
Andrew Lewis
yeah

01:11:09.25
Russell Gibson
So clearly this guy is going to be a four-time MVP, six-time champion.

01:11:11.81
Andrew Lewis
Yes, yes, indeed.

01:11:14.13
Russell Gibson
um He's going to be one of the greatest ever. But we haven't seen that happen yet.

01:11:18.18
Andrew Lewis
Yep. Dwayne Wade was the, on my list, was the top player not selected.

01:11:25.49
Russell Gibson
Yeah, yeah.

01:11:26.09
Dan Shea
Yeah.

01:11:26.71
Andrew Lewis
But I had five other guys on my list ahead of Nash, which were in my order, James Harden, ah Chris Paul,

01:11:35.31
Russell Gibson
You should really go and see a doctor about that concussion, mate.

01:11:38.25
Andrew Lewis
Chris, Paul, Gary, Payton, Allen, Iverson, Russell, Westbrook. I had them all.

01:11:41.25
Russell Gibson
Okay.

01:11:41.65
Andrew Lewis
I had a Nash.

01:11:42.07
Russell Gibson
Yep.

01:11:42.43
Andrew Lewis
So, and then ah the rest of my 20 was kid, Allen, Reggie and how great. So,

01:11:48.06
Russell Gibson
Nice. Some nice ones. Some nice ones.

01:11:50.35
Andrew Lewis
o but again, like there's some common themes there, that 96 draft, Kobe, Nash, Ray Allen.

01:11:55.23
Russell Gibson
Yep. Yep.

01:11:57.23
Andrew Lewis
um

01:12:01.23
Russell Gibson
That was there.

01:12:01.51
Andrew Lewis
It's, yeah.

01:12:02.52
Russell Gibson
Yeah. It's an interesting list. Um, look, I think we could, we could do, we could do a different, we could do a different way.

01:12:05.26
Andrew Lewis
Phoenix point guards.

01:12:09.98
Russell Gibson
We break down point guards, shooting guards. Uh, I think we still get stumped a bit on the, cause there is, there, there is an argument for the differences, the nuance between the shooting guard and the point guard position. Maybe that's why Stockton dropped so much.

01:12:23.38
Russell Gibson
Um,

01:12:23.50
Andrew Lewis
I think I love Stockton as much as anybody, but the I think the knock on him is he played like 19 NBA seasons.

01:12:31.24
Russell Gibson
You're going to make that rookie card the really plain-looking, random, just super plain, super boring guy.

01:12:34.77
Andrew Lewis
Hmm. Hmm.

01:12:37.55
Russell Gibson
He's the the second coming of Jerry West.

01:12:37.51
Andrew Lewis
Hmm.

01:12:39.83
Andrew Lewis
Yeah, he played 19 NBA seasons and was all NBA first team twice.

01:12:45.20
Russell Gibson
Yeah.

01:12:45.79
Andrew Lewis
So, you know, as far as the NBA was concerned, they were still picking positions back in those days.

01:12:47.04
Russell Gibson
Yeah.

01:12:51.26
Russell Gibson
Yeah.

01:12:51.20
Andrew Lewis
There was a better point guard in the league that year, 17 out of his 19 seasons. So it's the longevity. Yeah,

01:12:58.46
Russell Gibson
He was also the number two guy, right? Because Malone was the super duper scorer.

01:13:02.52
Andrew Lewis
he was never the best player on his team.

01:13:03.52
Dan Shea
Mm-hmm.

01:13:06.17
Andrew Lewis
and Yeah, because he retired and Carl Malone left.

01:13:06.30
Russell Gibson
Yeah.

01:13:09.23
Andrew Lewis
So, um a you know, Stockton wasn't starting in his rookie year, so he was never the best player on his own team.

01:13:10.77
Russell Gibson
Yeah.

01:13:16.03
Andrew Lewis
So that's the knock on Stockton.

01:13:16.98
Russell Gibson
fit Fair, fair.

01:13:18.99
Andrew Lewis
um But...

01:13:22.25
Russell Gibson
Yeah, yeah. But still, I think we've got we've got a solid top 10.

01:13:23.28
Andrew Lewis
Yep.

01:13:26.32
Russell Gibson
I'm just going to quickly recap before ah we do another plug for for for three old guys talking ball.

01:13:26.40
Andrew Lewis
Yep.

01:13:33.49
Russell Gibson
In number one, obviously, Michael Jordan. Because Adam didn't want to upset everybody, including the apple cart from the first pick. Number two was Magic Johnson. Number three, Kobe Bryant.

01:13:45.55
Russell Gibson
Number four, Steph Curry. Number five, Jerry West. Six, Oscar Robertson. Seven, Steve Nash. Eight, Bob Cousy. Number nine, Isaiah Thomas. And number 10 in the greatest guards of all time draft, John Stockton.

01:14:03.52
Russell Gibson
um Yeah, so for the for the next couple of episodes, ah we'll ah we'll well well we probably record those as well, and I might pop them up on here, but you can tune into them live.

01:14:04.52
Andrew Lewis
Solid list!

01:14:16.70
Russell Gibson
it'll be they'll be They won't be until down the track. um To the three old guys talking ball, we'll share share the podcast link to... your Spotify and and Apple podcasts and stuff in, in the episode description.

01:14:32.30
Russell Gibson
So everybody can check out that pod. Is there anything else, Andrew? I mean,

01:14:37.47
Andrew Lewis
Yeah, so we'll do – they'll be weekly because we've had a little bit of a break because – yeah, that's not a pun because I had a little bit of a break.

01:14:41.47
Russell Gibson
yes. Off season.

01:14:44.81
Andrew Lewis
um So we're going to drop these in three consecutive Wednesdays, so guards, forward, centres, and, yeah, and um we'll get a good – but maybe a little bit more conjecture with some of the others at the pointy end.

01:14:53.01
Russell Gibson
Beautiful.

01:15:00.79
Andrew Lewis
um

01:15:01.05
Russell Gibson
For sure. Well, look, I'm sure I'm sure i can upset the apple.

01:15:02.87
Andrew Lewis
I'm picking forwards and I'm going to try and find a way to not pick LeBron just the way Adam was trying to find a way not to pick MJ. But, um,

01:15:12.62
Dan Shea
Heh heh.

01:15:12.82
Russell Gibson
It's tough. It's tough. The big fundamental might be your answer.

01:15:18.78
Andrew Lewis
possibly, possibly, possibly not. So, you know, I don't, yeah, it'll be interesting, but yes, um,

01:15:22.05
Russell Gibson
Yeah, that's true. That's true. Um,

01:15:27.59
Andrew Lewis
search three old guys talking about podcast. And it's available wherever you find good podcasts and also where you find bad ones.

01:15:36.55
Russell Gibson
Yeah, good ones, bad ones, um ones that you, yeah, listen to lots, ones you don't listen to lots. ah Thank you to all of our our listeners out there on YouTube land, everybody that that listens on you on the way to work, um everybody that's listening listens to Three Old Guys Talking Ball and You Can't Comp This and I won't forget our friends at Central Coast Radio.

01:15:56.83
Russell Gibson
ah Really appreciate the support from all around the world. Until next time, thanks, Dan. Thanks, Andrew, and thanks, everyone, and we'll see you next time.

01:16:09.67
Russell Gibson
Done. Cooked. In the book.