Episode 231: Three Old Guys Talking the greatest forwards of all time

With co-host Russell still on holiday, Adam welcomes back Andrew Lewis and Dan Shea from Three Old Guys Talking Ball for part two of their all-time NBA draft series. 

After last week’s debate on guards, this episode shifts focus to the greatest forwards in league history. Andrew kicks things off by selecting LeBron James, praising his unmatched longevity and statistical dominance. Dan follows with Tim Duncan, highlighting his quiet consistency and legendary defensive presence. 

Adam stirs up controversy by picking Karl Malone, sparking a spirited debate about legacy, clutch moments, and off-court baggage. 

The trio also spotlight iconic forwards like Scottie Pippen and Dirk Nowitzki, weighing championships, cultural impact, and individual accolades. Blending basketball history with trading card insights, the hosts compare legendary performances to card market values, adding a collector’s twist to the conversation. It’s a lively, opinionated countdown of the NBA’s greatest forwards. 

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Transcript

00:00:36.71
Russell Gibson
Welcome everybody to episode 231 of the UConn Comp this NBA Trading Card Podcast. We are your host, Adam, Amy, joined by two other old guys. It's like we've hijacked the show. It's Andrew Lewis and Dan Shea from the three old guys talking ball.

00:00:58.07
Russell Gibson
How are we?

00:01:00.00
Andrew Lewis
We're going to get used to hijack. This might just be the annual August hijack.

00:01:04.55
Russell Gibson
This is like Russell goes away on holiday and I run riot in the show. This is going to be fantastic.

00:01:10.15
Dan Shea
It's the world's slowest, most arthritic coup.

00:01:12.51
Andrew Lewis
Yeah. We're two wild and crazy guys. Plus Adam.

00:01:16.95
Russell Gibson
You should have seen the AI generated images I got for the, uh, the, the, the show last week where it was just different age, age groups. i was trying to figure out three old guys talking about basketball. It was, it was creative. That's all I've got.

00:01:30.22
Russell Gibson
Um,

00:01:30.45
Dan Shea
but did you turn them in But did you turn them into cards?

00:01:30.37
Andrew Lewis
It was a creative.

00:01:33.12
Dan Shea
That's the question.

00:01:34.16
Russell Gibson
Oh, I should have had some card stuff there as well. i I was more focused on the – because I said three old guys and we looked elderly. And I'm like, I didn't mean elderly. I meant middle-aged. And then we had – we were too young in the next one.

00:01:47.03
Russell Gibson
So I went back to slightly older than middle-aged.

00:01:48.75
Andrew Lewis
It was, it was Waldorf and Statler and Stop Lying.

00:01:49.77
Russell Gibson
It was good. It was a good little work in progress.

00:01:54.88
Russell Gibson
I was going to get like images from Uncle Drew.

00:01:56.93
Dan Shea
That explains...

00:01:59.71
Dan Shea
that That explains the Muppet dancing over the yeah over the theme tune there.

00:02:03.25
Russell Gibson
that's That's fair. That's fair.

00:02:04.34
Andrew Lewis
I'm to some Muppet laughing too.

00:02:04.45
Russell Gibson
That's fair.

00:02:05.78
Andrew Lewis
So...

00:02:06.09
Russell Gibson
Oh, my God. Oh, goodness. All right. So to catch up all the listeners that that missed last week's episode, ah this is the second time the three of us have been together on the pod.

00:02:17.41
Russell Gibson
And last week we did the – we drafted our all-time NBA guards. I didn't upset the apple cart. Michael Jordan went number one. If you want the full episode, go back to either episode 231 or – or um Go and search for three old guys talking ball on Spotify, Apple podcasts, all the, all the good podcast platforms.

00:02:41.97
Russell Gibson
And you can also check out the socials on, on Facebook by searching the exact same um words. And, and, but yeah, quite, quite literal.

00:02:50.48
Andrew Lewis
Three old guys talking ball.

00:02:54.76
Andrew Lewis
Yeah.

00:02:55.59
Russell Gibson
um if it like

00:02:55.54
Andrew Lewis
You can see picture the three of us trying to look cool.

00:02:58.31
Russell Gibson
Yeah. It's, it's literally, um and we are, we are getting along. Age-wise. We're definitely not young. That's for sure. Anyway. um Yeah. So last week, i because I'm the the guard-sized ah member of the cast, I got to pick guards first.

00:03:15.19
Russell Gibson
Andrew, you are the the forward. So this week, we are doing the all-time forwards list, top 10.

00:03:18.81
Andrew Lewis
what i know

00:03:23.03
Russell Gibson
ah So you get the first and the 10th pick, I believe.

00:03:25.21
Andrew Lewis
As the... Yes, I get the extra pick in this draft.

00:03:28.44
Russell Gibson
Yep.

00:03:28.85
Andrew Lewis
As the undersized plucky forward.

00:03:33.16
Russell Gibson
Yes. and then And then next next episode, ah which I think will we we'll put up everywhere, but also um go and check it out because it'll be up first on Three Old Guys Talking Ball.

00:03:34.27
Andrew Lewis
Yeah.

00:03:44.50
Russell Gibson
ah Dan will get to pick the centres.

00:03:46.79
Andrew Lewis
Mm.

00:03:48.38
Russell Gibson
that's that that's ah That's a down-the-track problem, I think. First and foremost, Andrew has the number one pick. So we just get the ball rolling and let the cat out of the bag?

00:03:56.04
Andrew Lewis
I do. I do. And

00:04:00.88
Russell Gibson
That would

00:04:01.30
Andrew Lewis
the the cat's out of the bag in here, or she should be put in the bag.

00:04:01.94
Russell Gibson
that yea ah Yeah, I thought you were going to struggle to pick anyone but LeBron.

00:04:04.30
Andrew Lewis
But anyway, um the first pick is not the cat, um nor is it cat. ah

00:04:13.83
Andrew Lewis
it's um It's LeBron James, the man who has been...

00:04:21.74
Russell Gibson
But, yeah, good pick.

00:04:22.05
Andrew Lewis
Better for longer than anyone. Maybe in the history of team sport, but certainly in the history of the association. 42,000 regular season points and counting. More points, more turnovers than everyone else, but an incredible career. 21 NBA seasons I believe it was 21, 22. It's so many.

00:04:48.29
Russell Gibson
20.

00:04:49.63
Andrew Lewis
and so many

00:04:49.81
Russell Gibson
Isn't this isn't 23 or something?

00:04:51.24
Dan Shea
he's

00:04:51.64
Andrew Lewis
I've lost count.

00:04:52.06
Russell Gibson
yeah

00:04:53.40
Dan Shea
He's 21 All-NBA selections, so...

00:04:57.54
Andrew Lewis
21 All-NBA selections. that's this So he's been in the best 15 players in the league, 21 of 22 seasons.

00:05:07.62
Russell Gibson
Yes.

00:05:07.65
Andrew Lewis
think The only season he wasn't in All-NBA selection was his rookie season. So it's the last 21 seasons he's been in the best 15 players in the league. He's won four MVPs.

00:05:18.56
Andrew Lewis
He's been... top six in the MVP, something like 15 times.

00:05:24.19
Russell Gibson
Yeah.

00:05:25.52
Andrew Lewis
just Just incredible. And and really,

00:05:30.85
Andrew Lewis
there are two guys in NBA history, one we'll get to it our next episode, I'm sure, who sort of render the statistical discussion um sort of redundant because they've been able to push the bar so much further than everyone else. Now, with Wilt, it was...

00:05:50.49
Andrew Lewis
Just individual game, brothers, 100 points, averaging 50 points game for an entire season, stuff like that. But LeBron, it's like, how how long can you average?

00:05:55.87
Russell Gibson
Yeah.

00:05:58.55
Andrew Lewis
mean, over a 21, 22 season career, games, he has scored points a game. twenty seven points per game for instance but essentially yeah twenty seven points every night

00:06:11.88
Russell Gibson
Yeah. Yeah. It's, it's, it's, it's insane, isn't it?

00:06:13.85
Dan Shea
Okay.

00:06:14.99
Andrew Lewis
so such an incredible it's incredible level of statistical consistency. And

00:06:26.13
Andrew Lewis
and seven and a half rebounds and seven and a half assists.

00:06:27.90
Dan Shea
Perhaps worth...

00:06:30.13
Andrew Lewis
So.

00:06:31.66
Dan Shea
Perhaps also worth pointing out that the one year he missed out on an All-NBA selection, he won Rookie of the Year and came ninth in MVP voting.

00:06:37.46
Andrew Lewis
Yeah.

00:06:38.74
Russell Gibson
Yeah, it goes all right. It's not too bad.

00:06:40.22
Dan Shea
Hmm.

00:06:41.58
Andrew Lewis
Yeah. He's

00:06:44.30
Russell Gibson
um

00:06:44.27
Andrew Lewis
As the most hyped rookie,

00:06:46.95
Russell Gibson
Yeah.

00:06:47.36
Andrew Lewis
In the history of the NBA.

00:06:50.23
Russell Gibson
Yeah.

00:06:51.06
Andrew Lewis
As in ESPN showed, ESPN won, as in the primary ESPN channel was showing his high school games on primetime in Friday nights.

00:07:01.94
Russell Gibson
ye Yeah. this is This was the real deal.

00:07:03.00
Andrew Lewis
His high school games. This is like Ohio basketball.

00:07:04.64
Russell Gibson
This is the real. Yeah.

00:07:05.99
Andrew Lewis
Yeah.

00:07:06.07
Russell Gibson
Yeah, it was crazy. um

00:07:07.16
Andrew Lewis
So it is worth pointing out that for all the... yeah descriptions or assessments of his career at this stage, and it's not over yet.

00:07:18.79
Andrew Lewis
um LeBron lived up to the hype that was there before he entered the league. He was everything we thought he would be, and maybe even exceeded the hype because of his longevity.

00:07:31.14
Russell Gibson
Yeah, yeah. um Yeah, it's it's pretty insane when you think about it. now i'll We'll go back to his rookie year with with our card for today because I'm definitely not going to find a PSA 1 LeBron James card. What I am going to do, I'm going to get a big one today cause for such a big player.

00:07:51.81
Russell Gibson
And I will just share the image with the the YouTube audience Participants in the and in the stream today, it's the LeBron James 2003 Tops Chrome Black Refractor numbered to 500.

00:08:11.44
Russell Gibson
ah This card has a pop count of 20, and it last sold for $112,240. And if that's not... two hundred and forty us dollars um

00:08:22.52
Russell Gibson
and if that's not um

00:08:26.43
Russell Gibson
An interesting stat. The fact that it's down almost 15% from the previous sale in November 2024 of 132k.

00:08:38.46
Andrew Lewis
Thanks Luca.

00:08:38.74
Russell Gibson
Anyway.

00:08:42.38
Russell Gibson
It was November. Luca had nothing to do with it. It's coming back up.

00:08:46.75
Andrew Lewis
Do you have like this stock graph which shows, or

00:08:50.89
Russell Gibson
Oh, we we are. I've got card ladder up. I'll actually go back to the old time because it did peak. This card.

00:08:55.95
Andrew Lewis
that's my EKG pantomime move for the graph.

00:09:00.15
Russell Gibson
This, well, the graph is very steady. it in If you were going to pick this card up in 2016, you would have got it for $3,200.

00:09:08.53
Andrew Lewis
Good investment.

00:09:10.07
Russell Gibson
Great investment. If you tried to buy it during COVID, February 2021, this card for $480,000 dollars. this card sold for four hundred and eighty thousand u s dollars

00:09:19.91
Dan Shea
Ooh.

00:09:21.26
Andrew Lewis
And now it's worth a quarter of that now. I mean, not. fact that's worth a quarter of that now i mean um not

00:09:27.70
Russell Gibson
No, no, no. You most definitely like it it spiked the previous sales after that were in the two 60 mark. um And it's gradually dropped out to 2023.

00:09:37.80
Russell Gibson
It's lowest point since then was 86,000. And so it's now recovered.

00:09:41.15
Andrew Lewis
So what...

00:09:42.43
Russell Gibson
So thank you, Luca.

00:09:44.08
Andrew Lewis
Yeah, so if you own this card, this is what you need to do. You need to kidnap LeBron and lock him in a and it's a luxury hotel in Florida with, like, a huge room of red wine.

00:10:00.51
Russell Gibson
Yeah.

00:10:00.64
Andrew Lewis
And then...

00:10:02.19
Russell Gibson
He'll talk to Steve Nash the whole time.

00:10:02.76
Andrew Lewis
ah don't Don't do that. um I'm kidding. That was a joke. That was satire. There's...

00:10:12.08
Russell Gibson
But yes, that's um that's ah I thought I'd start with a big one today.

00:10:16.91
Andrew Lewis
but I thought I would too.

00:10:17.08
Russell Gibson
One of those.

00:10:17.95
Andrew Lewis
And I think he's undoubtedly the greatest forward in the history of the game

00:10:23.68
Russell Gibson
Definitely. um I don't get the second pick, so I'll be quiet now.

00:10:27.46
Dan Shea
o Yeah. um That would be me, I think. um So, ah yeah, I think, you know, um ah i'll i'll just I'll just come out with it. I think there's a ah probably a pretty clear consensus about the number one.

00:10:45.08
Dan Shea
I think from two on, there are some really kind of worthy candidates here.

00:10:48.38
Russell Gibson
It could go anywhere.

00:10:50.09
Dan Shea
So,

00:10:50.19
Russell Gibson
Uh-oh.

00:10:51.29
Dan Shea
um I'm going to go with um someone who had a number of nicknames. Not very many of them really got used that much. um ah The Big Fundamental, um Groundhog Day, Old Man Riverwalk, The Stone Buddha, one Timothy Theodore Duncan.

00:11:04.31
Russell Gibson
oh

00:11:09.98
Andrew Lewis
I think.

00:11:13.21
Dan Shea
um And I guess it's ah to kind of talk about the kind of resume a bit, you know, um long very very steady liable um career 15 time all nba 15 time all defensive was the rookie of the year was um very obviously the consensus number one pick not quite as much hype as for uh lebron but um an awful lot of it and there was really no doubt um that he was going to go number one whoever got that pick um

00:11:46.14
Dan Shea
Two-time MVP, um an all-star MVP, three-time finals MVP, Rookie of the Year, um and already in the Hall of Fame as a non-active player.

00:11:57.93
Dan Shea
um LeBron's obviously headed there. um

00:12:00.36
Andrew Lewis
okay

00:12:01.59
Dan Shea
And um I guess something that is is very likely to go down, it's already started happening as a historically underrated player because he just didn't make much noise.

00:12:12.86
Russell Gibson
Yeah.

00:12:16.14
Dan Shea
In fact, his unflappability, his steadiness, his consistency is actually one of the things that made him stand out so much during his playing days.

00:12:17.23
Andrew Lewis
And

00:12:24.18
Dan Shea
um

00:12:24.24
Russell Gibson
yeah

00:12:25.10
Dan Shea
Just to sort of add a little color, because there's a real risk of Tim Duncan being super boring, right? um Just because he's so quiet. I was trying to look up stories um about Tim Duncan during his career. And, you know, I found this list. There's about 20 of them, 16 of them.

00:12:41.23
Andrew Lewis
and we're gonna hear them all now.

00:12:41.50
Dan Shea
And no, but a good, but a good um ah you know, a good third of them are about how people just couldn't move him or couldn't get in his head.

00:12:53.31
Dan Shea
um Famously, Kevin Garnett, um ah you know, my favourite player, um who shares my birthday. um ah Famous trash talker, right?

00:13:04.59
Dan Shea
Defensive player, trash talker, similar sort of vintage.

00:13:05.54
Russell Gibson
Mm-hmm.

00:13:06.91
Dan Shea
In fact, I believe they're the same age. um Wore the same number. Lots of great battles. They really sort of came out to play against each other. Both really strong defensive players. um And ah with a big difference.

00:13:20.49
Dan Shea
Kevin Garnett, famous trash talker. And um I've seen kind of both sides of this ah this interview and was just great. Like basically KG said, you know, he was like getting all pumped up and and talking to Timmy and he just couldn't, like it just seemed like nothing was happening. He said he was just kind of looking at him and like, what talking to me?

00:13:40.50
Dan Shea
um and and uh uh i saw the like a response later someone asked him uh timmy about uh that and they said oh you know kg was saying that he you know he he tried to trash talk you and he couldn't get your head and you know tell me about tell us about that and goes yeah like why didn't you react he goes oh because that's what he wanted and he just had this And he just had this control.

00:14:01.91
Russell Gibson
yeah

00:14:03.88
Dan Shea
And in his way, KG talked about this and others have as well, ah Tim Duncan killed with kindness. His trash talk was, ooh, nice try when you missed a shot against his but i can ah guess against yeah against his punishing defense, right?

00:14:16.17
Russell Gibson
It's just supportive. Yeah, just supportive.

00:14:20.99
Dan Shea
He'd be encouraging when you failed. um Stephen Adams, don't um has a story about being tricked by Mr. Nice Guy Tim Duncan, right?

00:14:30.18
Russell Gibson
Yeah.

00:14:30.66
Dan Shea
In one of his first seasons, as ah as ah in his in his rookie season, um he said he was he was he was ah ah hitting you all the time and he was having trouble with it And then he came over and talked to me a bit.

00:14:41.78
Dan Shea
He was like, hey, man, how are you? And I was like, oh, what a nice guy. And then he just dropped 20 on me, 20 points on me in a row. I told Mark Brighton, he was like, yeah, that's a vet move. Don't do that. You can't be nice, right? Right.

00:14:54.36
Russell Gibson
Yeah.

00:14:55.37
Dan Shea
And that was the thing about Timmy. He was kind of the quintessential wolf in sheep's clothing, right?

00:15:01.92
Russell Gibson
Yeah, yeah, for sure.

00:15:03.70
Dan Shea
You know, people, he does, like you see him interviewed. He seems really chilled out. He seems really nice. um And then you hear about all of these, you know, tough guys, bad guys, these killers, these champions, and none of them could get a reaction out of him.

00:15:19.02
Dan Shea
And he beat so many of them so much. um One of the most reliable players of all time, the greatest power forward in history. There, I said it. and um And my pick for number two in this all-time draft.

00:15:33.06
Andrew Lewis
ah How hard was it to pick Duncan ahead of your boy, Kevin Garnett?

00:15:38.38
Dan Shea
ah It was hard, but actually i had to fight it really hard, but actually KG wasn't the one that I was thinking about.

00:15:47.91
Andrew Lewis
Fair enough. um

00:15:48.56
Dan Shea
um

00:15:49.28
Andrew Lewis
Also, and just want to point this out, ke Tim Duncan had the second most consequential rookie season, I think, in NBA history behind Magic's. As in, and Magic didn't win rookie the year.

00:16:01.69
Andrew Lewis
but this But, I mean, he was immediately ah veteran. I mean, there was there was almost no rookie season for Tim Duncan. As in, he was the best player on that team immediately, and they had David Robinson, and

00:16:15.24
Russell Gibson
Yeah. Mm.

00:16:15.77
Andrew Lewis
They were a contender immediately when, I mean, we won't get into the Spurs season right before, um but they were they were a pretty good team anyway. um Yeah, and he's for and then I think the second season was the season they won the title. Yeah,

00:16:32.78
Dan Shea
hmm

00:16:35.46
Russell Gibson
Pretty insane.

00:16:37.02
Andrew Lewis
kind they don't yeah ah yeah I don't have too much of a problem with dunking it too.

00:16:42.39
Russell Gibson
Tim Duncan.

00:16:43.65
Dan Shea
hmm

00:16:44.03
Russell Gibson
All right. I'm going to make it nice and easy. We just went from over $100,000 PSA 10 rookie card. We are going go to a Tim Duncan. we are gonna go to a tim duncan Topps Chrome, 1997 refractor, not the number to 500 like the LeBron, um but the refractor in the same for LeBron, the Topps Chrome is currently going for about 25 to 30K.

00:17:07.54
Russell Gibson
um Yeah, Timmy Duncan, not so much. Pop count on this is 106, and it last sold on July 3rd this year for $4,088. So still not not a not a ah cheap card by any means, but relative to LeBron James, it's

00:17:22.32
Andrew Lewis
and And when you opened in 1997, it was worth $4,088. And it's 4% per annum, like a good term deposit.

00:17:28.69
Russell Gibson
Probably. It's been steady. It's actually, yeah it's up over the last year. It's up 4%. So yeah, it's pretty steady card.

00:17:35.43
Andrew Lewis
and it's four percent per of like good turb deposit

00:17:36.05
Russell Gibson
if you If you were to buy it 10 years into Timmy's career in 2007, you're looking at $280 for that card.

00:17:47.63
Russell Gibson
Yes.

00:17:49.03
Dan Shea
He needs a the last dance.

00:17:52.02
Russell Gibson
Sure. Yeah. Can you imagine how boring that documentary would be?

00:17:55.74
Andrew Lewis
No, he, the, the, the comp is he needs a, like,

00:17:59.33
Dan Shea
He needs a winning time where they make everything up.

00:18:01.25
Russell Gibson
Winning time where they do a parody of stuff. Yes.

00:18:03.41
Dan Shea
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

00:18:04.59
Russell Gibson
They parody Tim Duncan.

00:18:06.38
Andrew Lewis
no, you're both wrong. He needs a luckiest man in the world. He needs like the Bill Walton four part of the 30 for 30, which I loved and no one else did.

00:18:13.64
Russell Gibson
Fair, fair.

00:18:15.55
Andrew Lewis
so

00:18:17.05
Russell Gibson
That's okay. I'm sure people that watch Disney, someone will watch it one day. They've got ESPN. Anyway, before I make my pick and really upset the apple cart, let's take a quick break and, um and hear from one of our sponsors.

00:18:26.50
Andrew Lewis
I should

00:18:34.33
Russell Gibson
And we're back. Are you guys ready for the apple cart? ah you Are you ready for my spanner?

00:18:38.21
Andrew Lewis
happy, they

00:18:40.33
Russell Gibson
Are you ready for me to throw something?

00:18:41.31
Andrew Lewis
um should be happy but

00:18:43.17
Dan Shea
Do you like apples?

00:18:47.23
Russell Gibson
i havet i have ah i have ah two reasons for this pick. andrew andrew Andrew's like, why are we doing this draft style?

00:18:56.82
Andrew Lewis
i know I know what's about to happen.

00:18:57.04
Russell Gibson
Well, right.

00:19:01.78
Russell Gibson
there's ah there's a We can segue into onto Disney+, plus where there's a TV show for the Marvel Universe called What If?

00:19:10.04
Russell Gibson
And I'm going to go to the episode of What If? is What if Michael Jeffrey Jordan was never drafted? What if he gave up basketball after that that um being cut from his high school team?

00:19:23.82
Russell Gibson
We would have no other, none other than one Karl Malone

00:19:32.01
Russell Gibson
as your greatest of all time, most dominant forward in NBA history. Two-time MVP, might I add, in the time where the only man that was winning MVPs could have been Michael Jeffrey Jordan. I'm going to pick Karl Malone.

00:19:52.57
Russell Gibson
And I don't want to pick Larry Bird because he's a Boston Celtic. That's the other reason.

00:19:55.77
Andrew Lewis
but Thank you.

00:20:05.01
Russell Gibson
I find it funny that last week I picked John Stockton as my spanner. And this week I'm picking Karl Malone.

00:20:12.08
Andrew Lewis
Next week you're picking Mark Eaton.

00:20:14.26
Russell Gibson
Yeah, I know. This is going to be bizarre, isn't it?

00:20:16.03
Andrew Lewis
Yeah.

00:20:18.44
Russell Gibson
um Look, I think Karl Malone's record speaks for itself. 14-time All-Star, ah four four-time All-Defensive, two-time MVP in a time where it was pretty tough to get ah an MVP around that MJ guy.

00:20:33.82
Russell Gibson
um And, of course, played for the Los Angeles Lakers.

00:20:40.50
Russell Gibson
that was that was That was a bit of ah a joke. But, yeah, all-time career, 25 points per game, 10 rebounds per game. This man, if Jordan hadn't existed, would would have been the most dominant presence in the and NBA for a very, very long time.

00:20:57.60
Russell Gibson
Now you guys can go while I find a Karl Malone card.

00:21:01.01
Andrew Lewis
He wasn't in my top 10.

00:21:03.26
Russell Gibson
No!

00:21:06.80
Dan Shea
Mine either.

00:21:07.80
Andrew Lewis
Yep. this is This is, I thought you were to something different and we were going to get, we were and I i won't spoil it because he's to get drafted. So, um

00:21:17.53
Russell Gibson
Is it the one you, oh, no, no, no. he's got I've saved him for six if he he's not gone yet. um

00:21:22.28
Andrew Lewis
excellent. I mean, he'll go and how I won't pick him. um I might have to, who knows? um Look,

00:21:31.62
Russell Gibson
Underrated. is I'm just, I'm sorry, but this guy in in another world, this guy is one of the greatest, he's on Mount Rushmore.

00:21:35.94
Andrew Lewis
yeah it's this is This is a difficult needle to thread considering I've just done the the just done the LeBron pick better for longer.

00:21:46.90
Andrew Lewis
But Malone is essentially that if there was no point of an NBA season other than to just be statistically dominant,

00:22:03.05
Russell Gibson
Yes. Fair.

00:22:04.32
Andrew Lewis
But unfortunately, there's that big trophy thing at the end of the season that you need to win. And if Karl Malone was as clutch as his off-sider who you picked last week, then and i don't think John Stockton was, ah think John Stockton wasn't born clutch.

00:22:22.30
Andrew Lewis
He learnt it, which shows it can be done.

00:22:24.05
Russell Gibson
fair

00:22:25.05
Andrew Lewis
But it wasn't able to be done by Karl Malone, who tended to

00:22:30.70
Andrew Lewis
not deliver in the biggest moments when he absolutely needed to deliver.

00:22:36.53
Russell Gibson
fair

00:22:36.79
Dan Shea
in the In the words of another great NBA forward, mailmen don't deliver Sundays.

00:22:41.60
Andrew Lewis
Yeah.

00:22:44.69
Russell Gibson
No, my pick, my choice. kind The mailman is in.

00:22:47.21
Dan Shea
Yeah.

00:22:47.12
Andrew Lewis
Fair enough.

00:22:49.04
Russell Gibson
And I will point out that the most dominant player in Jordan's era was Michael Jordan. The most dominant player in Kobe's era was Kobe Bryant. The most dominant player in LeBron James' era was Stephen Curry.

00:23:04.47
Russell Gibson
I will rest my case. Anyway, the mailman is number three and you can't change the list. So no.

00:23:11.61
Andrew Lewis
You're not the bus of me.

00:23:12.49
Dan Shea
Yeah.

00:23:15.89
Russell Gibson
um i've got I've got to find a Carmelone card now. Jeez.

00:23:18.77
Dan Shea
Well, i guess i guess I guess the other thing, and i'll only I'll only nod to it rather than going into gory details.

00:23:19.15
Russell Gibson
triishha

00:23:20.91
Andrew Lewis
good

00:23:24.15
Dan Shea
I guess the other part of it is we've kind of hit ah part of the list with someone who has just absolutely crazy off-court stuff that has come out.

00:23:34.85
Dan Shea
um Some of it came out in one to one degree or another when he was ah when he was playing, like the fact that an answer he gave in an interview once um ah about his fantasy of hunting humans for sport.

00:23:40.30
Russell Gibson
Mmm.

00:23:48.23
Andrew Lewis
that

00:23:50.56
Dan Shea
ah you can

00:23:50.50
Andrew Lewis
The ultimate rabbit hole.

00:23:51.82
Dan Shea
you could you could You can source that, Google it, it's on the record. um And the the, you know, the other, um some of the other stuff, which I won't, you know, ah be too explicit about, but there's there's some criminal stuff in the um in the history as well.

00:23:56.86
Andrew Lewis
rabbit hall

00:24:07.02
Russell Gibson
Mm. Mm. Mm.

00:24:09.01
Dan Shea
um

00:24:08.98
Russell Gibson
We're talking about the game. We're talking about stats, talk about the game. Let's let's

00:24:11.86
Dan Shea
Yep, yep, yep, yep, yep. No, I just, if if anyone's curious about that one, ah Patrick Beverley's answer in a recent interview where he was told about this and suddenly found out, priceless. Look it up.

00:24:22.66
Russell Gibson
Oh my God.

00:24:22.87
Dan Shea
um Yeah.

00:24:24.20
Andrew Lewis
Let's put this way.

00:24:24.27
Russell Gibson
All right. on

00:24:24.96
Andrew Lewis
And look, look, there have been some pretty um galling winners of father of the year over you of the like of the journey.

00:24:34.14
Russell Gibson
Journey.

00:24:35.95
Andrew Lewis
um and don't know Karl Malone ever won father of the year, but he would fall. He would sit pretty comfortably with some of those like, that guy won father of the year?

00:24:48.14
Russell Gibson
Two-time MVP, I'll just remind.

00:24:49.34
Andrew Lewis
Two-time MVP, which is one more than Kobe.

00:24:51.49
Russell Gibson
All right.

00:24:54.26
Dan Shea
MJ took that personally. Yeah.

00:24:57.10
Russell Gibson
Goodness gracious me. All right, so 1986 Fleer, very iconic set, as people will be able to see by the art, the same as the first appearance of Michael Jordan. 1986 Fleer, Karl Malone, rookie card, last sold for $2,850 dollars.

00:25:14.82
Russell Gibson
And that was a couple of days ago.

00:25:17.63
Andrew Lewis
up so Is there a Karl Malone card with him doing the signature Karl Malone dunk with the hand behind his head, though? That's one of the great dunks.

00:25:24.97
Russell Gibson
Probably.

00:25:25.84
Dan Shea
Hmm.

00:25:26.28
Russell Gibson
Quite probably.

00:25:26.58
Andrew Lewis
That's one of the great signature dunks.

00:25:29.67
Russell Gibson
Actually, the Scoring Kings doesn't have a ah good signature photo. But there is a Scoring Kings from 1993, which is also what he is renowned for.

00:25:38.44
Andrew Lewis
Speaking of Car Malone, yeah.

00:25:42.20
Russell Gibson
Scoring, lots of it. Yes.

00:25:44.10
Andrew Lewis
Yeah.

00:25:44.54
Russell Gibson
All right. now Now I've upset the apple cart. On to pick number four.

00:25:47.71
Andrew Lewis
Time to put the capital cart back on the rails. Here is a guy who I had higher on my list than Car Malone. Here's a guy who I had higher on my list than Tim Duncan. It's Larry Joe Bird.

00:26:00.48
Andrew Lewis
It's the hick for a French lick. Larry Legend, the basketball Jesus.

00:26:06.74
Andrew Lewis
Maybe the greatest Celtic of all time?

00:26:11.37
Andrew Lewis
Larry won three MVPs.

00:26:11.72
Russell Gibson
Maybe.

00:26:12.45
Andrew Lewis
He won them in a row. and two of those

00:26:13.87
Russell Gibson
I don't know. ja Jason Tatum hasn't finished his career yet.

00:26:17.01
Andrew Lewis
and And two of those years, they won the and NBA title. See, this is good.

00:26:20.50
Dan Shea
Now who's being naive?

00:26:22.81
Andrew Lewis
but is The thing that's not like the other thing, Larry Bird won three NBA titles.

00:26:31.80
Andrew Lewis
A teammate who was so good that his unselfishness became infectious. the

00:26:39.22
Russell Gibson
Yes.

00:26:40.08
Andrew Lewis
Yes, he actually, through some through osmosis, um turned his teammates into unselfish players.

00:26:49.50
Russell Gibson
Yes. Mm-hmm.

00:26:50.08
Andrew Lewis
And, you know, I think if Kevin McHale had landed somewhere else, he would have been one of the most incredible bull hogs in the history of the and NBA. Dennis Johnson had a well-established NBA career as ah shoot first guard of some renown before he came to Boston, but they all fitted the system.

00:27:11.00
Andrew Lewis
um With Magic, and I made this point with Magic when I got him as well, and I drafted both of them in our team's draft five years ago, and so we're just running it back.

00:27:18.91
Russell Gibson
At Fantasy, yeah.

00:27:22.37
Dan Shea
Hehehe.

00:27:22.27
Andrew Lewis
um I think you've got... I didn't have Karl Malone. um

00:27:30.52
Andrew Lewis
I had Kevin Durant before we fell out. um

00:27:34.38
Russell Gibson
Interesting. Yeah.

00:27:35.57
Andrew Lewis
But along with magic, Larry saved the NBA.

00:27:35.67
Russell Gibson
Yeah.

00:27:43.29
Andrew Lewis
The modern and NBA is born... baptised

00:27:46.29
Russell Gibson
yeah

00:27:47.33
Andrew Lewis
is baptized in that 1979-1980 season and then and then has its, to just run the Christian Catholic metaphor right on the ground, has its first communion when MJ enters the league.

00:28:00.47
Russell Gibson
Yeah. Yeah. Fair, fair, fair.

00:28:01.95
Andrew Lewis
An

00:28:05.82
Andrew Lewis
and incredible teammate, an incredible shooter, maybe the most physically underestimated player in terms of there wasn't a discernible physical skill in terms of running athletic ability that you would look at Larry Bird and you think,

00:28:23.25
Andrew Lewis
um

00:28:26.19
Andrew Lewis
you know, there's something you hang on that he does this better than an elite level.

00:28:27.36
Russell Gibson
Hmm.

00:28:30.15
Andrew Lewis
An incredible shooter, incredible passer, just a fantastic basketball player rather than an athlete.

00:28:35.20
Russell Gibson
Yeah.

00:28:37.00
Andrew Lewis
And and i think this gets a little underrated,

00:28:42.90
Andrew Lewis
certainly in the ballpark for competitiveness with Michael Jordan. And this is a guy who Larry Bird who once said, I enjoyed three weeks of my entire basketball career.

00:28:49.84
Russell Gibson
yeah

00:28:54.46
Andrew Lewis
was the week after I won each of my three championships. and can and And, you know, a starting five member of the all trash talk team.

00:29:06.45
Russell Gibson
yeah Yeah, the man loves to talk trash. He does.

00:29:08.21
Andrew Lewis
Yeah, the guy who would, and and maybe the greatest ever, um I'm going to run to this spot and hit this game-winning shot. He was so good at it.

00:29:19.22
Russell Gibson
One of those guys. Yep.

00:29:20.10
Andrew Lewis
One night in Seattle, he did it. The basket was waved off, so he did exactly the same thing again and hit both shots.

00:29:29.09
Russell Gibson
Goodness gracious.

00:29:30.35
Andrew Lewis
Against Zadie McDaniel, who was, like, not a guy to be trifled with. So...

00:29:39.98
Russell Gibson
Yes. All right.

00:29:41.28
Andrew Lewis
and And then spun it sped off into an incredible acting career.

00:29:41.69
Russell Gibson
larry Larry legend.

00:29:45.91
Andrew Lewis
um Blue Chips, Space Jam. um And having all said that, the greatest Larry Bird clip might actually be when...

00:29:54.55
Russell Gibson
Is it, is it, is Larry Bird's acting as, as prolific as he's coaching?

00:30:00.25
Andrew Lewis
I was just getting to the coaching because he's great the great the greatest Larry Bird clip might be when Reggie hits the game when he shot in game four of the 98 Eastern Conference Finals and Larry Bird...

00:30:12.06
Andrew Lewis
It looks like he's been frozen in time. There is no change to his position.

00:30:14.92
Russell Gibson
Yeah.

00:30:17.65
Andrew Lewis
It's like, okay, well, Reggie Miller does the exact opposite. Let me just put that. Look it up.

00:30:23.43
Russell Gibson
yeah Yeah. Goodness gracious. um

00:30:27.10
Andrew Lewis
So Larry Bird, i i I'm taking and running him at number four.

00:30:27.62
Russell Gibson
ah Larry Bird at number four.

00:30:32.68
Russell Gibson
um

00:30:33.76
Andrew Lewis
Malone ahead of Bird.

00:30:33.99
Russell Gibson
Yes. Well, I, I, I've got multiple, I've got mold.

00:30:35.68
Andrew Lewis
That's so it's offensive.

00:30:37.82
Russell Gibson
I got multiple stuff for Larry Bird here. Card wise. In fact, I actually picked up a, um,

00:30:43.98
Dan Shea
Fuuuuh.

00:30:44.59
Russell Gibson
A Larry Bird rookie.

00:30:44.77
Andrew Lewis
Look.

00:30:45.93
Russell Gibson
It's PSA 6 at a recent card show. So it was at the Hobby Hangout. um The magic had just gone. I was really frustrated. That's the 1981 tops. ah For those that that would be able to pick up, say, a PSA 10 that, PSA 10 last for $12,200. Unfortunately, mine's PSA 6, which last sold for $55 dollars.

00:31:05.09
Russell Gibson
unfortunately mines psa six um which last sold for fifty five u s dollars And it's a slightly different pop count. um But the other one I will talk about is the iconic, the famous 1980 tops scoring leaders, Larry Bird, Magic Johnson, and Julius Irving.

00:31:24.32
Andrew Lewis
the three panel one.

00:31:26.61
Russell Gibson
Yeah, that's correct. ah Now, this is a piece of history. ah popular yeah population on this one is 24 in a PSA 10 and it last sold on June 28th this year for 500,000 US dollars easily

00:31:46.82
Andrew Lewis
Now you do the conversion rate, you could buy a house with that. yeah I'm just kidding. You can't buy a house for a million dollars anymore. But no, it's like that's that's one of the, it is literally one of the all-time great cards.

00:31:59.17
Russell Gibson
that's that's yeah

00:32:03.84
Andrew Lewis
It's like you a short list of some of this, like if I could have a card, that would be one of the ones that's like the tri-panel, bird magic, dr ja

00:32:11.00
Russell Gibson
And i'm glad I'm glad you said that because I am going to segue before we probably go to the next break because we're half an hour in. I need to give all the the the You Can't Comp This listeners because we've been keeping track of this card. We touched on it last week.

00:32:26.49
Russell Gibson
Russell and I, Russell is keen to know what this goes for. At the time of airing, this auction will have finished. But at present, the Michael Jordan, Kobe Bryant, one of one,

00:32:41.64
Russell Gibson
Dual auto logo man.

00:32:46.51
Russell Gibson
Current bidding is 5.2 million u s dollars. This will be the most expensive basketball card ever sold.

00:33:03.32
Russell Gibson
Currently at 5.5.

00:33:06.60
Russell Gibson
Yeah, 5.2 million. um With buyers premium, it comes to 6.3 million. Four days left. It closes on August 23rd in the US.

00:33:17.49
Andrew Lewis
So buy your Powerball tickets. Well, like it'll be, it'll have been sold by the time.

00:33:20.52
Russell Gibson
um

00:33:24.10
Russell Gibson
Yeah, this card.

00:33:24.15
Andrew Lewis
The transaction would have taken place.

00:33:26.54
Russell Gibson
Yeah, this is this is a historic moment for basketball cards. Anyway, this is about forwards. I just thought I'd throw Kobe and Jordan in for good measure. um And on that, we will we will take a quick break.

00:33:44.55
Russell Gibson
And we're back. That was a very quick break.

00:33:48.70
Russell Gibson
Are you guys refreshed after that break?

00:33:51.62
Andrew Lewis
um I mean, I just spent five minutes walking around my lounge room muttering Malone of a bird?

00:33:58.93
Dan Shea
My crepes are done.

00:33:59.84
Andrew Lewis
The SS microwave. Anyway.

00:34:02.33
Russell Gibson
This is going to be like one of these the the the the last dance um edits, extra extra videos, like the Luke Longley special.

00:34:02.48
Andrew Lewis
anyway

00:34:11.90
Dan Shea
did you Did you start this podcast with a quadruple scotch? but just just Just me?

00:34:19.91
Russell Gibson
Oh, goodness gracious. Okay, on to number five. Get the halfway point. Daniel.

00:34:25.13
Dan Shea
um So, i won't beater it.

00:34:27.59
Russell Gibson
like You can't pick Malone because he's number three.

00:34:30.37
Dan Shea
Oh, gotcha. Yep. Okay.

00:34:31.61
Russell Gibson
Yeah.

00:34:31.94
Andrew Lewis
We wasn't picking him at five.

00:34:32.65
Dan Shea
Yep.

00:34:35.92
Dan Shea
um Good to know. Good to know. Good to know. So um I'm going to pick actually the the the card you mentioned just before the break, Appazit. um I'm going to pick the the player who the great Kobe Bryant had described as the hardest player to guard.

00:34:53.09
Dan Shea
um One, Kevin Wayne Durant. um Durantula, KD, Slim Reaper, Easy Money Snipe. I just love these nicknames.

00:34:59.55
Russell Gibson
Wow.

00:35:00.88
Dan Shea
The Servant. I hate that one. Green Room. what What even is that? Okay. 15-time All-Star, two-time NBA champion um with the Golden State Warriors, 11-time All-NBA, four-time scoring champ, two-time All-Star MVP, one-time League MVP, two-times Final MVP,

00:35:20.24
Dan Shea
um and Rookie of the Year. um I think, you know, one of the the most telling stats um about him is his effective field goal percentage, right, which kind of mathematically combines regular field goal percentage, you know, 2.3 point free throw.

00:35:34.35
Andrew Lewis
yeah

00:35:40.06
Dan Shea
I mean, over career, it's over 55. And for last season, as he's still active, it's really, really close to 60%.

00:35:46.72
Russell Gibson
Yeah. Mm-hmm.

00:35:49.27
Dan Shea
That's insane. um

00:35:51.51
Russell Gibson
yeah

00:35:51.88
Dan Shea
And, you know, this is a guy who's... always been three-level scorer and just keeps adding things to your offensive game. You know, a slightly messy divorce with a couple of teams he has left,

00:36:07.80
Dan Shea
um ah you know, when that but that wasn't entirely, and that wasn't particularly mutual, didn't leave them necessarily any great um in a great place and didn't didn't necessarily leave with people feeling very happy about it.

00:36:20.32
Dan Shea
um I'm trying to think of a time he's he he left a team when they were happy about it, actually.

00:36:21.84
Russell Gibson
What are you going to say? Yeah.

00:36:25.52
Dan Shea
um ah Sour taste in the Oklahoma City Thunders' mouths. The Warriors weren't happy to see him go. um ah The Nets gave a lot and then waved goodbye.

00:36:39.20
Russell Gibson
yeah

00:36:40.07
Dan Shea
And um the Suns, sorry, Andrew, just recently waved goodbye and he's... landed on his feet. He's, um,

00:36:50.82
Russell Gibson
Did the door hit him on the way out?

00:36:52.98
Dan Shea
I really don't think so. he went all the way to Houston and these guys are a scary team. Now they were already a two seed without him. Um, uh, and you know, and they were, they were only kind of narrowly beaten by, um, Katie's former team.

00:37:00.78
Russell Gibson
That's true.

00:37:06.56
Dan Shea
I can't see them. I'm not sure i can see them.

00:37:08.15
Andrew Lewis
Which one?

00:37:09.05
Russell Gibson
Can I segue this just quickly for any of the UConn Comp This listeners that would like to hear the three of us debate this?

00:37:09.74
Dan Shea
Hmm. me

00:37:17.88
Russell Gibson
things that are going to happen. And this will be a preview to that. Andrew, at what point do you think we're going to utter the words, Houston has a problem with Kevin Durant?

00:37:28.53
Andrew Lewis
um Well, um through the first couple of podcasts on the three old guys talking bulls, ah podcast in October. We'll be doing our season previews and we'll do the Eastern Conference first and the West. So it's the last pod before the season starts.

00:37:47.03
Andrew Lewis
We'll go through the Western Conference teams and we will get to the Houston Rockets so and we will get them.

00:37:47.13
Russell Gibson
Yes.

00:37:51.40
Andrew Lewis
And the way we do this, everybody who hasn't listened to three old guys talking about, because been doing these previews in a few parts for a while, is that we do them in the order in which I think they're going to finish in the season.

00:38:03.39
Andrew Lewis
And before anyone's ready for me to talk or expecting for me to talk about the Houston Rockets, we'll talk about the Houston Rockets and then I will utter the words, Houston, there is going to be a problem. That's a moral lock.

00:38:12.88
Russell Gibson
Yeah, literally, sure yeah, that is.

00:38:14.92
Andrew Lewis
Yeah.

00:38:15.30
Russell Gibson
Yeah, especially now Kevin Durant's there.

00:38:16.11
Andrew Lewis
because this is going be yeah Because it's going to be five minutes ah of me basically giving you the glass is not even half full.

00:38:26.26
Russell Gibson
There is no glass.

00:38:27.38
Andrew Lewis
Yeah.

00:38:28.28
Russell Gibson
He smashed it on the way out from um Phoenix.

00:38:28.27
Andrew Lewis
So I think Kevin Durant's greatest achievement was also starring in the 1990 Academy Award winning movie about all his the teams that he's gone to since Golden State.

00:38:30.05
Russell Gibson
Yeah.

00:38:40.22
Andrew Lewis
You know, the one Kathy Bates won the Academy Award for. It's called Misery.

00:38:46.46
Andrew Lewis
Because everywhere he goes, it just becomes a less happy place.

00:38:49.30
Russell Gibson
Could I give a positive? Could I give a positive to KD? How many Olympic medals, gold medals does he have? It's four, right? Four?

00:38:55.92
Andrew Lewis
Yes, yeah.

00:38:56.30
Russell Gibson
Four, five, four. Yeah. Pretty.

00:38:58.69
Andrew Lewis
it's It's four.

00:38:59.63
Russell Gibson
It's a rare company. Anyway.

00:39:03.35
Andrew Lewis
Yes, yes. As in one, a gold medal at four separate Olympics.

00:39:03.88
Russell Gibson
Sorry about.

00:39:06.75
Andrew Lewis
The list is like six or seven people in history.

00:39:07.57
Russell Gibson
Yeah. Yeah, in history.

00:39:11.16
Andrew Lewis
So he has that going for him, which is nice.

00:39:11.33
Dan Shea
Hmm.

00:39:14.10
Andrew Lewis
um i

00:39:14.26
Dan Shea
um but possibly the best scoring forward of all time.

00:39:16.61
Andrew Lewis
He's got...

00:39:18.92
Dan Shea
I think, you know, there's,

00:39:19.82
Russell Gibson
ah LeBron James did all right at that, actually. Yeah.

00:39:23.22
Dan Shea
Well, yes, yes. ne If we're talking about kind of um versatility and skills, actually, it was interesting hearing them talk to each other on um LeBron's podcast about that.

00:39:31.30
Russell Gibson
Yeah.

00:39:33.57
Dan Shea
um And I think, you know, like to be c clear, like, you know, acknowledged, right?

00:39:37.38
Russell Gibson
yeah

00:39:37.94
Dan Shea
Like the, um ah but yes, no, absolutely. Like in terms of the combining everything, including availability and longevity.

00:39:42.11
Andrew Lewis
the

00:39:45.82
Dan Shea
Yes, absolutely. LeBron's, yeah.

00:39:46.84
Andrew Lewis
Can I zag?

00:39:48.71
Dan Shea
Hmm.

00:39:48.91
Andrew Lewis
Devin Durant's called the best scoring forward of all time because he doesn't have the other... because he's a not as good an all-around player as LeBron. LeBron is every bit the scorer Kevin Durant is.

00:40:01.14
Andrew Lewis
He's might not, I mean, no one is as good a shooter as a forward, except maybe Larry Bird as Kevin Durant. um But you don't have to be able to shoot to be able to, I mean, I guess in today's and NBA, it's more true than ever, but um historically you haven't been had you haven't had to be able to shoot.

00:40:13.20
Russell Gibson
Yeah.

00:40:18.67
Andrew Lewis
to be able to score. And our next pod, when we go through the centers, we'll go through the numerous examples of guys who couldn't shoot, who scored 25, 26, 27, 28 points a game.

00:40:26.70
Russell Gibson
Yeah, yeah, for sure, for sure.

00:40:28.17
Andrew Lewis
Durant's called the greatest shooting so forward of all time because we're trying to give him a, he's the greatest at something in compare in comparison to LeBron James.

00:40:39.45
Russell Gibson
Yeah, he's a scoring machine.

00:40:41.33
Andrew Lewis
Durant's an incredible player and all jokes aside, I'm getting through the five stages of grief. um

00:40:47.82
Dan Shea
Thank you.

00:40:49.88
Andrew Lewis
I had him fourth and he's gone fifth. So I had him ahead of Karl Malone and comfortably. um

00:40:58.56
Andrew Lewis
He's one of the all-time greats.

00:41:02.47
Andrew Lewis
But he is and has not really ever been, except for maybe two two-week periods at the end of the 2017 and 2018 NBA seasons, player than LeBron Chaps.

00:41:06.36
Russell Gibson
His legacy is a train wreck, yeah.

00:41:12.59
Andrew Lewis
Yeah. ah better play than leronche

00:41:15.63
Russell Gibson
Yeah. And look, I'm not going to go and find a snazzy rookie card. I'm going to go back to to Prime KD for for our basketball moment. I'm going for a 2013 Panini Innovation Kevin Durant Kaboom.

00:41:34.51
Russell Gibson
One of the more sought after insert sets these days. Last sold, last sold for $5,599. $5,599. five thousand five hundred and ninety nine dollars

00:41:46.24
Andrew Lewis
So a question without notice, Adam, is there not a niche industry for a card with Kevin Durant in a Sonics uniform?

00:41:50.28
Russell Gibson
Yes.

00:41:56.32
Russell Gibson
ah There's a few people that like him in the Sonics, the OKC stuff. And I think the changing of the team is actually really interesting discussion point.

00:42:02.94
Andrew Lewis
It's just like he's in a Sonics uniform for one season. It's his rookie season. So i just thought there might not be many cards.

00:42:06.34
Russell Gibson
That's correct. Yeah. Yeah. this There's that, but there's also a lot of the Golden State fans don't want him in OKC. A lot of the Brooklyn people probably don't want his cards anyway.

00:42:17.15
Russell Gibson
Yeah. bit But because of the changing of the teams and things, like his heyday was either Golden State or OKC. And the demand, I guess, changes to an extent.

00:42:32.51
Russell Gibson
um And he did win his MVP in OKC. So... Yeah, it's it's interesting. there's He's been very... um There's been a ah lot of loss as far as hobby love for KD in recent years.

00:42:47.92
Russell Gibson
um He's one of the all-time greats, I'm sure, scoring-wise.

00:42:51.47
Andrew Lewis
because his cards are haunted.

00:42:51.70
Russell Gibson
He'll leave a mark on the game. Yeah, yeah, that's that's right.

00:42:54.79
Andrew Lewis
Yeah. Yeah.

00:42:57.15
Russell Gibson
But yeah, like there's there's just players in the league that they're not collected much.

00:42:57.17
Andrew Lewis
yeah

00:43:03.05
Russell Gibson
And I think once KD... don't know, bought one too many burner phones, then you took a bit of a dive ah hobby respect wise for the collectors.

00:43:14.78
Russell Gibson
Anyway.

00:43:15.74
Andrew Lewis
No worries. Now, Adam, can I hijack the podcast for a brief moment before you make the next pick?

00:43:21.70
Russell Gibson
Sure.

00:43:22.87
Andrew Lewis
Daniel, don't know about you, but in my list that I had down, there was a gap after the top four. It was a pretty, for me, it was a pretty unassailable LeBron, Bird, Duncan Durant as the greatest four forwards.

00:43:36.11
Dan Shea
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

00:43:37.41
Andrew Lewis
So I just say this as a precursor because I think Adam's about to take that apple cart and throw it well away from the road again. As you were, Adam.

00:43:47.15
Russell Gibson
I've got two picks left, you see. Now, before I – well, i might I might actually completely throw it out the yeah window. Oh, no, no, it's not too bad. We talked about this man beforehand.

00:44:00.38
Russell Gibson
And while a lot of people give him respect in some ways, I still don't think – I think he's incredibly underrated. And I'm going to stick by this. I'm going for underrated players and and upping them in in the charts.

00:44:17.40
Russell Gibson
was originally going to be my number nine pick, but but i but i every kept time i've I've rejigged my list, I'm like, I don't know where to put him. And the moment I'm feeling high on him. So at number six, I'm going to pick Scottie Pippen.

00:44:30.43
Dan Shea
Hmm.

00:44:30.78
Russell Gibson
You thought I was going to say Julius Randle then, didn't you? No.

00:44:35.15
Andrew Lewis
Only a little.

00:44:36.38
Russell Gibson
Only a little. Scottie Pippen. um You call him the best second banana, but like that Jordan doesn't win any of those championships if he doesn't have Scotty.

00:44:47.88
Russell Gibson
yeah That's better than ah the best second banana. That's like, it's two first bananas in that team.

00:44:54.30
Andrew Lewis
I know, it's a team game. It's it's no disrespect.

00:44:56.92
Russell Gibson
ah No, no, but I'm saying Scotty Pippen is one of the greatest players of all time, and that's no shade on Jordan, but the caliber of player he had behind him in Scotty,

00:45:10.82
Russell Gibson
I think there's there's a lot of respect that needs to go Pippen's way.

00:45:15.16
Andrew Lewis
Fair enough. Adam, I'm pretty sure Daniel and I both had Pippin higher on our list than Karl Malone. And we're just going to keep coming back to this.

00:45:25.95
Russell Gibson
You get to number 10 and you're like, by the way, this player I also had higher than Karl Malone.

00:45:30.88
Andrew Lewis
Yeah, it's Byron Houston.

00:45:32.34
Russell Gibson
Fair enough.

00:45:34.11
Andrew Lewis
No,

00:45:35.36
Russell Gibson
This is going to be referred to as the Karl Malone episode.

00:45:38.42
Andrew Lewis
no, I'm joking.

00:45:43.97
Russell Gibson
Anyway, Scottie Pippen, what can you say about him? Like, the guy's got his six rings. He doesn't have the MVPs because Jordan got those. But, like, success-wise...

00:45:55.67
Andrew Lewis
Really come in the buttons. Yeah. buttons um

00:45:59.61
Russell Gibson
Bartons are terrible, hey?

00:46:04.38
Russell Gibson
Scottie Pippen, seven-time All-Star, 94-95 steals champ.

00:46:08.86
Andrew Lewis
yeah

00:46:09.72
Russell Gibson
um So he's an all-star MVP, 10 times all defensive. he He was um special, I think, is the best way to describe it with regards to his defense.

00:46:23.78
Russell Gibson
and And they say defense with wins championships, so MJ should be happy that Scotty was there. Yeah.

00:46:29.72
Andrew Lewis
93-94 finished third in the MVP behind Hakeem and David Robinson.

00:46:33.76
Russell Gibson
Yeah.

00:46:37.17
Andrew Lewis
So finished ahead of Shaq, Patrick Ewing, Sean Kemp, Karl Malone,

00:46:44.98
Andrew Lewis
Charles Barkley.

00:46:48.45
Russell Gibson
I he's especially got a special place in my heart. um Probably it might be a couple of spots lower on some lists. But I definitely think he deserves a top 10 jersey in the all time forwards.

00:47:01.80
Russell Gibson
So I'm picking him at number six.

00:47:03.39
Andrew Lewis
you

00:47:05.92
Russell Gibson
um Comments thoughts, violent reactions.

00:47:11.71
Dan Shea
I mean, it's...

00:47:14.98
Dan Shea
It's, we were kind of, as we were kind of talking about at the um at the the start, it's, I mean, Scottie Pippen deserves, does deserve a place on on a list like this.

00:47:18.63
Russell Gibson
Yeah.

00:47:25.79
Dan Shea
um I think the idea of, you know, second banana status, I imagine, you know, that there is at least one great forward who is going to miss the list in part because he played his entire career with Larry Bird.

00:47:44.79
Dan Shea
um You know, um and i think, you know, it's it's um it's in part ah a, um it's not a long list of players who have won a championship without another all-star, without another Hall of Famer.

00:47:46.78
Russell Gibson
yeah

00:48:03.57
Dan Shea
And...

00:48:04.63
Russell Gibson
Yeah, some great duos over the years.

00:48:04.71
Dan Shea
and

00:48:08.01
Dan Shea
Absolutely. And in a lot of cases, one member of the duo, um for you know maybe a combination of reasons, was just not as decorated as the other.

00:48:19.22
Dan Shea
And while they might have been really good, you know it might have been because their skills were... um particularly and specifically complementary to the, um you know, the brightest star. um Or, you know, other things like a logjam at their position.

00:48:32.61
Andrew Lewis
Thank you.

00:48:34.02
Dan Shea
But, um you know, it's not a hugely long list, you know, players who have won a championship without another kind of, um you know, really outstandingly good player.

00:48:38.42
Russell Gibson
Yeah.

00:48:43.92
Dan Shea
um ah You know, Shaq, who I imagine may well come up on our list next time, won a number of championships. But every time he won one, he had a Hall of Fame, like not just All-Star, but Hall of Fame guard or wing on his team, right?

00:49:03.05
Russell Gibson
Yeah, yeah, for sure.

00:49:04.33
Dan Shea
um And, um you know, I think it's it's a rare star that can do that. um

00:49:11.97
Russell Gibson
yeah yeah

00:49:12.11
Dan Shea
And, you know, like those, it doesn't take away from um from Scotty's individual skills. And the other part of it is as a player who was, a table setter, a gap filler, you know, the other half of one of the best kind of full court press defences in history.

00:49:23.84
Russell Gibson
yeah

00:49:35.74
Dan Shea
um And someone who, you know, it was still brought on as a kind of a spot analyst to talk about defending the, that the you know, the the best offensive players and best scorers.

00:49:44.66
Andrew Lewis
Thank you.

00:49:48.52
Dan Shea
um in the league.

00:49:49.95
Russell Gibson
yep Yeah, for sure.

00:49:50.11
Dan Shea
um You know, I think the idea around around Scotty being a defensive specialist, in addition to his other skills, but really what he was best known for and um and most celebrated for was his his defense.

00:50:04.36
Dan Shea
It's the quieter end of the court, right?

00:50:04.38
Russell Gibson
Agreed. Yep. Yep.

00:50:07.57
Dan Shea
um

00:50:08.68
Russell Gibson
Quiet achievement.

00:50:09.75
Dan Shea
you know, it's the less celebrated end of the court and he's an all time great defender. Um, you know, at least one of, and some, some say the best wing defender in history.

00:50:20.57
Dan Shea
Um, uh, which is a, uh, I mean, that's a good argument to have, i think, but, um,

00:50:21.30
Russell Gibson
yeah

00:50:25.89
Andrew Lewis
I would say it. I think he's the greatest non-big defender I've ever seen.

00:50:29.21
Dan Shea
Hmm. And just, you know, like whether or not he's, you know, the best or the second best, like just absolutely elite.

00:50:31.70
Russell Gibson
Yeah.

00:50:37.21
Dan Shea
There's no, on that, there's no controversy.

00:50:38.70
Russell Gibson
There's no question. Yeah, there's no question.

00:50:39.97
Dan Shea
Yeah.

00:50:40.11
Andrew Lewis
he's at the top level. there's There's no level above that he didn't get to defensively.

00:50:41.56
Dan Shea
Yeah.

00:50:43.91
Russell Gibson
Yep. Yep.

00:50:45.96
Dan Shea
And so while I'm not, I can't say, i can't say that I had him this high on my list. I don't hate it at all because, um, he's just, he was just such a great player.

00:50:54.59
Russell Gibson
Yeah.

00:50:57.88
Dan Shea
Um,

00:50:58.57
Russell Gibson
It's certainly not a Karl Malone level um reaction.

00:51:04.34
Dan Shea
It's, it's, yeah. Yeah.

00:51:06.62
Russell Gibson
Yeah.

00:51:06.83
Dan Shea
It's, um it's a.

00:51:07.64
Andrew Lewis
like my My feelings are almost identical to dance as in I didn't have him at six, had him lower than that, but I have no problem with him being at six.

00:51:17.53
Russell Gibson
Yeah.

00:51:18.07
Dan Shea
Yeah.

00:51:18.17
Russell Gibson
Yeah.

00:51:18.20
Andrew Lewis
And when I was five years ago, when i was picking a team to win,

00:51:18.59
Russell Gibson
I think he fits.

00:51:23.36
Andrew Lewis
um I picked him ahead of some other people who are probably higher on my list in terms of all time forwards, because, because he is just like, I was the first player to pick a sixth man.

00:51:27.20
Russell Gibson
Yeah, I was frustrated when you did that.

00:51:28.24
Dan Shea
Hmm.

00:51:29.22
Russell Gibson
I wanted him.

00:51:33.10
Andrew Lewis
And I just thought this, he's going fantastic because he play but he can play and defend multiple positions.

00:51:38.95
Russell Gibson
Fair.

00:51:39.04
Dan Shea
Yep.

00:51:39.00
Andrew Lewis
So

00:51:39.86
Russell Gibson
And it worked to an extent.

00:51:40.04
Dan Shea
he's he's He's a steal. Yeah.

00:51:42.68
Andrew Lewis
yeah.

00:51:42.86
Russell Gibson
Ha ha ha ha ha.

00:51:43.20
Andrew Lewis
Whenever I see those things float around social media, like build a winning NBA team. with, you know, and you've got this many dollars, you like you got $15 and you're going to pick five players. They're five, two.

00:51:54.97
Andrew Lewis
You see Pippen, but like $2 or $1. I'm just like, I'm just like the two guys I'm looking for a Pippen and Bill Russell.

00:52:00.09
Russell Gibson
He's your guy. You get him in. Yeah.

00:52:02.75
Andrew Lewis
And it's just like, if I can get them for like four total dollars, then suddenly I've got the buddy to go and buy MJ.

00:52:05.99
Russell Gibson
Yeah.

00:52:07.84
Andrew Lewis
And once I've got those three, it doesn't matter who else is on my team.

00:52:11.05
Russell Gibson
Yeah, that's fair.

00:52:11.24
Dan Shea
One

00:52:11.32
Andrew Lewis
I'm winning any game in the history of the game.

00:52:11.70
Russell Gibson
That's fair. That's a good pick.

00:52:15.02
Andrew Lewis
I'm beating anyone. We are, you know, we're,

00:52:18.67
Russell Gibson
Well, I'm going to be a bit indulgent with my Scotty Pippins. I'm going to start off with a Scotty Pippin three-color patch.

00:52:24.86
Andrew Lewis
yeah

00:52:27.23
Dan Shea
year.

00:52:30.44
Dan Shea
Nice.

00:52:30.80
Russell Gibson
So there's the the white, the black, and the red. They're triple colored patch. Chunky there. ah a sticker auto, which is annoying. That's a National Treasures ah card numbered to 10, which I picked up from our friends at Fastbreak Trading Cards, thanks to John and Alvaro.

00:52:48.82
Russell Gibson
And the other card I've got is a 2015 Excalibur Kaboom, which last sold for $786 US. And that was March this year.

00:53:03.32
Russell Gibson
I actually picked up one of these at Raw at a hobby hangout a little while back, couple couple hobby hangouts ago. So yeah, if no one's figured out yet, I do like to collect Scotty Pittman.

00:53:16.80
Dan Shea
that's a piece That's a piece of jersey in the card there.

00:53:19.11
Russell Gibson
That is, that is a a piece of game worn jersey.

00:53:22.67
Dan Shea
Oh, it's, wow.

00:53:22.86
Russell Gibson
and So it's it's all there. It's back when we got game-worn jerseys in them.

00:53:28.74
Dan Shea
here

00:53:28.80
Russell Gibson
um So that was a bit of one of Scotty's jerseys.

00:53:31.90
Dan Shea
that's That's super cool.

00:53:33.49
Russell Gibson
Yeah.

00:53:33.44
Andrew Lewis
Adam's collection is just a testament to guys who were just not quite as good as Michael Jordan. It's fantastic.

00:53:42.78
Russell Gibson
got nothing. I've got nothing. um All right. we've We haven't got many picks left.

00:53:47.64
Dan Shea
you

00:53:47.95
Russell Gibson
Let's take one final break um and and then we will hit the ground running and clean up this top 10 list.

00:54:00.09
Russell Gibson
And we're back for the final stretch.

00:54:04.36
Andrew Lewis
Now, I've got the next pick. so and

00:54:06.59
Russell Gibson
You do. You got the next pick and the last pick.

00:54:09.06
Andrew Lewis
and've got i've Look, i have to apologise to everyone at home because everyone, were you listening?

00:54:14.90
Russell Gibson
Is that for my pick with Karl Malone?

00:54:17.24
Andrew Lewis
no, no.

00:54:18.11
Russell Gibson
ah thank goodness.

00:54:18.23
Andrew Lewis
That's fine. But there's a certain theme, a certain flavour to our prognostications, particularly from me, because we are three old guys talking about, but some of us lean older than others.

00:54:32.73
Andrew Lewis
And That's me, right? i'm I'm the really cranky old, you know, man's yells at cloud guy.

00:54:39.34
Russell Gibson
Oh. Am I going to be happy with this pick?

00:54:41.52
Andrew Lewis
And we've picked six guys who all played in our lifetimes and that's got to stop. Okay?

00:54:49.65
Dan Shea
anding You're picking Hondo, aren't you?

00:54:49.77
Andrew Lewis
So with the seventh pick, I'm picking the guy who was so tough and so reliable, they gave him John Wayne's nickname. Yes, Honda, John Havlicek, who...

00:55:04.26
Andrew Lewis
is in the 35th, 50th and 75th anniversary teams. 13 All-Star games, eight NBA championships, MVP, finals MVP.

00:55:14.97
Andrew Lewis
Still 22nd all-time in career points, despite the fact he averaged 21 points a game 50 years ago. he He retired at the end of the 1978 season after playing 16 seasons. 16 seasons was unheard of in those days.

00:55:32.97
Andrew Lewis
This guy was the absolute punch the punch the clock, bring the lunch pail guy in the history of the NBA. And this is the underrated thing about Hevichek is he had two or three different phases of his career where his role morphed and he was able to succeed doing different things. The original six man, the six man award is named after John Hevichek.

00:56:02.45
Andrew Lewis
Then you've got starter, peak offensive Havlicek, which also coincided with the time when Bill Russell was the player coach. So what they actually did was Russell ran the defense and Havlicek ran the offense. They basically didn't have any external output from anyone who wasn't on the playing staff on how they were operated at either end.

00:56:25.19
Andrew Lewis
you Over 71 and 71, 72, he averaged 45 minutes a game and missed one game in two years. Insane numbers. um And he was able to continue until he was 37 years on that 37 year in that last season where the Celtics weren't very good.

00:56:45.86
Andrew Lewis
This was the season before the season they got Larry Dirt.

00:56:49.93
Russell Gibson
Yep.

00:56:50.91
Andrew Lewis
37 years of age playing on, you know, probably wafer thin Chuck Coopers for 16 years, flying coach, sitting in buses, sleeping in bad hotel rooms. Um,

00:57:02.41
Andrew Lewis
on bad wheels, yeah knees and ankles. He averaged 16 points a game and played every game and averaged 34 minutes a game. I mean, it's sort of insane. And rightly so, we pay tribute to LeBron's incredible longevity, but leurron LeBron has had every ah technological ah your advantage in terms of how to look after after your body. And you know he's been smart enough, he's invested in it, he's looked after himself, he's been totally committed to that. But none of those advantages, essentially, other than you know food and water, ah were available to John Havlicek.

00:57:36.53
Andrew Lewis
And sort of he did it first. And you know, has two NBA championships for every LeBron championship. So, yes, he played on some great games, but he was also, you know, the best offensive player on two or three um and NBA championships for the Celtics and then was the best player, yeah ah you know, overall in ah another two Celtics championships where their teams weren't that good.

00:57:44.97
Russell Gibson
I like the ratios.

00:58:05.19
Andrew Lewis
You know, he was winning NBA championships with a solid... ah but not great Celtics team going up against guys like Kareem and Bill Walton. um

00:58:14.70
Russell Gibson
That's fair. That's fair. That's fair. Now, out of respect to John Havlicek, I am going to find a nice, juicy card.

00:58:16.85
Andrew Lewis
Havlicek needs to be given his powers.

00:58:26.11
Russell Gibson
is not There's only one really want card that's available here, and that's the 1969 Tops ah Havlicek, which are the longer cards.

00:58:37.26
Russell Gibson
As the old Alcindor...

00:58:37.70
Andrew Lewis
Hmm.

00:58:38.53
Russell Gibson
lu al ah yeah the elinndor Lovely Kareem one there. But this John Havlicek, population count of two in a PSA 10.

00:58:52.86
Russell Gibson
Only two of them. Last sold in August 2020 for $85,000. there has not been sale this card. It peaked in 2018 at So there is some love the man the card world.

00:59:05.36
Russell Gibson
in two thousand and eighteen at a hundred k some love for the man in the in the card world even though he he didn't play in our lifetime.

00:59:18.42
Russell Gibson
um

00:59:18.63
Andrew Lewis
Yes, I've picked...

00:59:19.05
Russell Gibson
The GSA line is a $10,000 card. So, yeah.

00:59:23.08
Andrew Lewis
Yes, Adam, I've picked two Celtics and I'm looking down the rest of my list and there's only two more on my list. So we'll see how we go. um

00:59:32.34
Dan Shea
Mm-hmm.

00:59:32.60
Andrew Lewis
you might You might get lucky.

00:59:33.30
Russell Gibson
Are you going to pick a Laker with the 10th pick?

00:59:39.74
Russell Gibson
You got big game James. big game james right, maybe not.

00:59:44.22
Andrew Lewis
Oh, I forgot about James Worthy. He's not in my 20.

00:59:50.57
Russell Gibson
Oh, I've got the ninth pick, right?

00:59:52.18
Andrew Lewis
so

00:59:55.58
Andrew Lewis
but Daniel's got the ice pick and that's next.

00:59:57.88
Russell Gibson
That's fair. Let's go across to the eighth pick with Daniel.

01:00:02.31
Dan Shea
Look, in all likelihood, others may have weighted this player a little differently. We mentioned before. um I couldn't possibly go past him with my last pick um in this forwards draft, my favorite player of all time.

01:00:19.38
Dan Shea
um we We share a birthday, um a fantastic all-around and particularly two-way player, another elite defender, um which just tend to get you underrated relative to um offensive and particularly scoring brilliance.

01:00:19.33
Andrew Lewis
Good man.

01:00:37.46
Dan Shea
um All-time great interview, all-time great trash talker, all-time great defender, one-time MVP, four-time rebound champ, 2008 NBA champ for the Boston Celtics.

01:00:53.04
Dan Shea
um

01:00:53.31
Andrew Lewis
I had three Celtics on my list, sorry.

01:00:56.22
Dan Shea
All-star MVP, um league MVP, 12-time All-Defensive player, nine-time All-NBA, and the 2007-8 Defensive Player of the Year.

01:01:10.67
Dan Shea
um Your favorite and mine. KG, the big ticket. um um i just I just couldn't go past him. um And um look, you know, 21 seasons, um the last few, you know, trailed off, he was pretty affected by an injury he sustained while still on a seriously good Boston team after they'd already won one.

01:01:34.16
Dan Shea
um And, you know, the only T-Wolf really...

01:01:41.90
Dan Shea
as things currently stand in sniffing distance of any one of these lists. um And, um ah ah you know, I'm proud to say, as I said, proud to say my favorite player of all time.

01:01:54.45
Russell Gibson
Good pick. I like that.

01:01:56.13
Andrew Lewis
So Garnett went eighth, right, Adam?

01:01:59.84
Russell Gibson
Sorry?

01:02:00.25
Andrew Lewis
ae Garnett went eighth, right?

01:02:03.84
Russell Gibson
That's correct.

01:02:04.64
Andrew Lewis
I had him higher than that.

01:02:07.86
Russell Gibson
You had Garnett higher.

01:02:09.72
Andrew Lewis
Yeah, but you've taken, and there've been a number of players taken by you, Adam, who were lower than Garnett. So,

01:02:18.32
Russell Gibson
A number of players.

01:02:19.98
Andrew Lewis
yeah. As in both your players that you've taken so far were below Garnett.

01:02:25.26
Russell Gibson
You guys are wrong.

01:02:28.74
Russell Gibson
Maybe I just don't rate Garnett. Maybe because he's a Celtic.

01:02:33.99
Russell Gibson
Excuse my view. um I have a card though. i have ah i have over a card for Garnett, which i I'll just quickly bring up.

01:02:40.51
Dan Shea
Mm-hmm.

01:02:44.13
Russell Gibson
It's 1995 Top's Finest Kevin Garnett PSA 10 with the coding still on. Last at $697 US dollars on July 8th this year. It's got him in his rookie suit with the with the cap on.

01:03:01.74
Russell Gibson
Nice little card there. Nice card.

01:03:02.78
Andrew Lewis
So the old wolves riding on the hat or is it the, is it the logo?

01:03:06.30
Russell Gibson
No, it's got Minnesota. It's got Minnesota. Yeah, it says Minnesota and it's got the logo.

01:03:08.84
Andrew Lewis
Okay.

01:03:12.24
Russell Gibson
Yeah, yeah.

01:03:13.40
Dan Shea
Hmm.

01:03:13.92
Russell Gibson
That's the only one i could find on short notice though.

01:03:17.36
Dan Shea
Yep.

01:03:18.15
Russell Gibson
Not much hobby love for KG like in the big dollars, but yeah, one of the greats.

01:03:24.21
Andrew Lewis
He was just about the highlight of Celtic City for me. that's in the end the The two episodes he were it he was in, he was fantastic.

01:03:27.11
Russell Gibson
He was...

01:03:31.07
Dan Shea
Hmm.

01:03:31.07
Russell Gibson
So of the of the players that have been mentioned...

01:03:38.09
Russell Gibson
Yeah, there's – yeah, I've still got a couple left on my list that I probably would have had in there i um over some of these.

01:03:45.66
Andrew Lewis
lot of talent, a lot of stuff left on the board.

01:03:48.13
Russell Gibson
or Honourable mentions are going to be lengthy, I think.

01:03:51.53
Andrew Lewis
Wow, yeah.

01:03:53.36
Dan Shea
e

01:03:55.40
Russell Gibson
I don't like having responsibility when I've already thrown two spanners. I don't like it, but i'm i' am I ready to throw another –

01:04:03.22
Andrew Lewis
Here comes another one.

01:04:07.30
Russell Gibson
Do I do it? Do I not do it? um

01:04:09.34
Andrew Lewis
Do it.

01:04:09.95
Russell Gibson
No.

01:04:10.21
Dan Shea
If you can dodge a spatter, you can dodge a ball. Yeah.

01:04:12.30
Andrew Lewis
Do it!

01:04:14.30
Russell Gibson
No. No. We're going to go the big jerk. Dirk, the German in number nine, Dirk Nowitzki. Is that a normal pick? Are you guys happy?

01:04:29.15
Russell Gibson
Was he in your top ten?

01:04:31.65
Andrew Lewis
No, I didn't below Malone.

01:04:31.99
Dan Shea
Yes.

01:04:37.91
Dan Shea
ah

01:04:39.30
Russell Gibson
He's below Malone on my list too

01:04:42.61
Dan Shea
um

01:04:45.53
Andrew Lewis
Well, that makes sense!

01:04:47.41
Dan Shea
i did i did have Dirk in my top 10.

01:04:50.51
Russell Gibson
Thank you. You had him at 10, didn't you?

01:04:54.86
Dan Shea
No, no, I had him higher than 10. had him at, I had him at seven.

01:04:56.36
Russell Gibson
Okay.

01:04:59.49
Russell Gibson
like Okay, good. right. Yeah, look, I think Derek Mitzki was was the the, God, the great hope. The great one in Dallas. And now that won't be repeated because Luka's a Laker.

01:05:14.28
Russell Gibson
um Yeah. Just an all-round... I don't know. If you've got an iconic shot sort of named... ah like Like you've got an iconic moment like that, like he's shooting.

01:05:31.43
Andrew Lewis
No.

01:05:31.57
Russell Gibson
Surely you're an icon of the game.

01:05:34.97
Russell Gibson
He's got ah he's got ah's he's got one of Kobe's whatever

01:05:42.63
Russell Gibson
um Yeah, 12-time All-NBA, 14-time All-Star, NBA champion in 2011 and 2010-11 finals MVP, two thousand and six oh seven MVP.

01:05:54.74
Russell Gibson
Dirk Nowitzki. um

01:05:58.55
Russell Gibson
I don't know what else to say about this man. He was he was it was Luca before Luca, really. um And he carried Dallas on his back to an extent.

01:06:10.17
Andrew Lewis
Has any championship changed how we think about a player more than the 2011 championship changed how we thought about Dirk Nowitzki?

01:06:16.55
Russell Gibson
and

01:06:20.31
Andrew Lewis
that's why I had him in third tier.

01:06:20.55
Russell Gibson
ah

01:06:21.57
Andrew Lewis
just feel like

01:06:24.65
Russell Gibson
Yeah.

01:06:26.25
Andrew Lewis
And i mean I had another player who's now not going to get picked um who had that one championship and he doesn't get the same doesn't get the doesn't get the same esteem that Dirk seems to get for winning his championship.

01:06:33.95
Russell Gibson
like Thanks, Kyle. It's all your fault.

01:06:41.61
Andrew Lewis
So just it might be because of who Dirk beat.

01:06:41.90
Russell Gibson
Yeah.

01:06:44.51
Andrew Lewis
you know He beat the Wade LeBron Bosch Miami Heat who was supposed to walk in every championship

01:06:52.97
Russell Gibson
They were supposed to win everything very easily.

01:06:54.03
Andrew Lewis
While they were together. Yeah. So, but it just seems like everybody, know, for the moment they won that championship, Dirk's, approved you know, his Q rating went to like 100%.

01:06:55.59
Russell Gibson
Yeah.

01:07:03.78
Andrew Lewis
ah hundred percent Everyone loves Dirk.

01:07:07.65
Russell Gibson
We do like, yeah, yeah. Dirk the jerk, the big German. um I, I, I, there's not a lot in the card world to do with, with Dirk. So I'm just going to bring up once again, 2013 Panini innovation,

01:07:23.38
Russell Gibson
Dirk Nowitzki Kaboom, which is a very interesting artwork, the the the anime sketch. But, yeah, last sold ah in a 10 for all. Yeah, Dirk was special.

01:07:40.98
Dan Shea
Mm-hmm.

01:07:41.67
Russell Gibson
so not too shabby at all yeah dirk was jack was special um Yeah, Dirty Dirk, Tall Baller from the G, the German Race Car, and German Jesus amongst the main nicknames.

01:08:02.44
Andrew Lewis
ah um I'm letting that go through with that comment.

01:08:06.22
Russell Gibson
Oh, good. Oh, good. Now, where's the drum roll? Because we've got the 10th pick still.

01:08:10.02
Andrew Lewis
Yep. Give me the drum roll. Give me the drum roll.

01:08:15.33
Andrew Lewis
Because obviously my Havlicek pick did not go grumpy enough, old enough, hard enough.

01:08:27.41
Dan Shea
I know he picked it.

01:08:30.34
Andrew Lewis
I cannot believe this guy almost missed out. This guy might be responsible for the greatest single performance in an NBA season ever, which I'll explain.

01:08:47.43
Russell Gibson
i've got two I've got two names.

01:08:47.89
Andrew Lewis
Unfortunately for people our age, he was more known as a veteran of the lottery process during his second career as general manager of the Los Angeles Clippers.

01:08:59.50
Andrew Lewis
It's Elgin Baylor.

01:09:01.57
Dan Shea
Yep.

01:09:02.28
Andrew Lewis
The NBA is the first great forward.

01:09:05.93
Dan Shea
Hmm.

01:09:05.87
Andrew Lewis
So the ninety sixty one sixty two season is sort of this golden season as far as we look back at the NBA. It's the year Wilt hit his 100-point game and averaged 50 points a game and also averaged over 48 minutes a game because he didn't go off and they played overtime games.

01:09:19.87
Russell Gibson
Yep.

01:09:25.45
Andrew Lewis
It's the season where Oscar Robinson averaged a triple-double.

01:09:29.32
Russell Gibson
Yeah.

01:09:30.46
Andrew Lewis
ah By the way, by the way, none of those guys won the MVP that season.

01:09:31.83
Russell Gibson
That's like a gold mine.

01:09:38.06
Andrew Lewis
Everybody, look at your monitor on your car and hit that minus 15 seconds back thing on thing so you can listen to me say that again.

01:09:47.41
Russell Gibson
Did not win the MVP.

01:09:48.60
Andrew Lewis
But that wasn't the most incredible thing that happened that season. most incredible thing that happened that season was Elgin Baylor averaged 38 points a game as a part-time basketballer while during the week he was serving in the Army Reserve.

01:10:04.35
Andrew Lewis
Come Friday afternoon, he would go from his Army base, which was in Washington State on the west coast of the United States, and fla and somehow managed to travel to wherever the Lakers were playing their games on that weekend and then be back.

01:10:05.37
Russell Gibson
I

01:10:22.33
Andrew Lewis
for like Monday roll call. yeah He only played 48 games. We didn't play any midweek games that year while he was on the ama reserve. And he averaged 38 points and 18 and a half rebounds a game and finished fourth in MVP voting behind Bill Russell.

01:10:40.27
Andrew Lewis
50 points a game, Wilt Chamberlain and triple double Oscar Robertson.

01:10:41.78
Russell Gibson
the paper he did play he played He only played 40-something games. He wouldn't have been eligible in this day and age.

01:10:49.28
Andrew Lewis
No, he wouldn't have. No, he wouldn't have. So when other players whose temporary hardship might have been somewhat self-inflicted acting like, oh, look at all the stuff he has to go through. There you've got Elgin Baylor.

01:11:05.64
Andrew Lewis
They're not even traveling with the team. Picking up this green duffel bag like he's Adrian Cronauer at the start of Good Morning Vietnam and flying from one core literal corner of the United States to wherever the Lakers were playing that weekend.

01:11:20.39
Andrew Lewis
playing two or three games, dropping like 120 points and then flying back, probably catching three or four planes at a time when they were slightly more likely to drop out of the sky than they are now.

01:11:25.51
Russell Gibson
That's insane.

01:11:33.33
Andrew Lewis
So it's, you know, it's a little reason it's a little reasonable just to acknowledge the effort he did to just get through the season.

01:11:39.83
Russell Gibson
Credit where credit's due, right?

01:11:40.39
Andrew Lewis
or

01:11:41.15
Russell Gibson
Yeah.

01:11:41.32
Andrew Lewis
He averaged 38 points a game. He averaged 27 points a game for his entire career.

01:11:48.45
Russell Gibson
Well, I appreciate you picking Laker.

01:11:49.32
Andrew Lewis
just just Just an incredible, and I don't know if he's underrated as so much as just entirely overlooked nowadays.

01:12:00.44
Russell Gibson
Well, the 50s and 60s are a long time away.

01:12:03.82
Andrew Lewis
He was 10 times all NBA first team.

01:12:07.78
Russell Gibson
Yeah.

01:12:08.41
Andrew Lewis
He was in the best five players in the league 10 times, years apart.

01:12:16.93
Russell Gibson
Yeah, that's insane, right?

01:12:19.06
Andrew Lewis
But because of the era he played in and who this who was playing at the same time, never won an MVP, he did win Rookie of the Year.

01:12:24.79
Russell Gibson
He won Rookie of the Year in fifty eight fifty nine

01:12:30.83
Russell Gibson
All-star MVP in his rookie year

01:12:33.00
Andrew Lewis
Yeah. He was also top 20 in assists, like, in the league nine times.

01:12:39.88
Russell Gibson
too.

01:12:40.85
Andrew Lewis
At a time where was a bit harder to get an assist. I mean, this guy was just an offensive juggernaut.

01:12:44.94
Russell Gibson
Yeah.

01:12:47.43
Andrew Lewis
So, um I mean... I had him six in my list. So I managed to get one, two, five and six on my list of how I rank people.

01:12:59.60
Andrew Lewis
So I'm very happy.

01:13:00.60
Russell Gibson
i actually I actually had el i had Elgin at 10.

01:13:04.18
Andrew Lewis
And what's even more,

01:13:04.91
Russell Gibson
We agreed on something.

01:13:08.79
Andrew Lewis
and somehow, I mean, yeah, and again,

01:13:12.85
Russell Gibson
i ah Yeah.

01:13:13.17
Andrew Lewis
Well, before we get to honorable mentions, we've got to, because Elgin would be some incredible, incredibly old car.

01:13:19.18
Russell Gibson
Yeah.

01:13:21.09
Andrew Lewis
So,

01:13:22.32
Russell Gibson
Yes, well, the Elgin Baylor 1961 Fleer. PSA 9, because there are no 10s in existence.

01:13:33.40
Russell Gibson
PSA 9, pop count on this is nine. There are nine copies of the PSA 9, and it last sold for $92,850 in October PSA 8 sold for $16,000.

01:13:47.78
Russell Gibson
um if you're looking for something a little bit more affordable february this year a psa eight sold for sixteen thousand but there's 64 of those floating around.

01:13:57.60
Andrew Lewis
but That is less money.

01:14:00.85
Russell Gibson
um If you want to get to a little bit more in the, oh, actually, now PSA 6 will still set you back $1,500. A PSA 5 will set you back $750. If get a PSA 3, it'll only set you back $400.

01:14:14.15
Russell Gibson
So

01:14:17.43
Russell Gibson
it's a very old card, a very, very, very old card, and... um a piece of history. You're right. Elgin Baylor is one of the greats. So yes.

01:14:28.82
Russell Gibson
And that wraps yeah that wraps up our our top 10 draft, which looks a little bit different, I think, than Andrew had projected. um Let's recap. At number 10, we had Elgin Baylor. Number nine, Dirk Nowitzki.

01:14:42.28
Russell Gibson
Number eight, Kevin Garnett. Number seven, John Havlicek. Number six, Scotty Pippen. Number five, The Durantula, Kevin Durant. Number four, Larry Bird. Number three, the mailman, Karl Malone.

01:14:56.47
Russell Gibson
Number but two, Tim Duncan. And at number one, we have LeBron James.

01:15:02.52
Andrew Lewis
No. Sure.

01:15:04.16
Russell Gibson
Pretty sure of the top six were pretty much what everybody had.

01:15:12.58
Andrew Lewis
no

01:15:15.95
Russell Gibson
um I have three honourable mentions. Shall we mention three each?

01:15:21.14
Andrew Lewis
sure

01:15:22.01
Dan Shea
ah Sure.

01:15:22.96
Russell Gibson
I had Dr. J, Giannis, and Charles Barkley in my honourables.

01:15:29.45
Andrew Lewis
I had two out of my top 10 that didn't make the list.

01:15:35.76
Russell Gibson
Who were?

01:15:36.15
Andrew Lewis
And they were Dr. J and Yannis.

01:15:39.46
Russell Gibson
Yep.

01:15:39.49
Andrew Lewis
And if we're doing a third, my next pick was Bob Pettit.

01:15:44.16
Russell Gibson
Bob Pettit. Interesting.

01:15:45.30
Andrew Lewis
Yeah.

01:15:46.01
Russell Gibson
Interesting.

01:15:47.17
Dan Shea
um I had exactly the same three honourable mentions. um I guess one of the things that i Because I was actually quite close to to um to putting Dr. J higher in my list.

01:16:05.52
Dan Shea
And one of the things that helped me with the tiebreak was, honestly, his best play was before he joined the NBA. He was the ticket.

01:16:15.88
Dan Shea
He was the probably the, i mean, talking about people changed the league, he's the reason for the ABA merger.

01:16:20.44
Russell Gibson
Yeah, yeah. yeah

01:16:23.17
Dan Shea
um uh you know he won three of his four career mvp awards in the wrong league um

01:16:29.70
Andrew Lewis
So when you say play, that's a plural.

01:16:36.04
Andrew Lewis
As in his best period of play is what you mean.

01:16:38.93
Dan Shea
oh yes it yes yes yes yeah

01:16:39.70
Andrew Lewis
Yeah. Okay. Because his best play was the rock the baby slam dunk against the Latham's.

01:16:40.34
Dan Shea
yeah

01:16:43.43
Dan Shea
Oh, yes, yes, yes. Yeah. and But yeah, yeah. No, he's he's his his peak as a player really um ah came before he joined the NBA.

01:16:53.51
Dan Shea
And that was really what sort of broke it. Basketball reference combines the two um when you look at kind of stats and things like that. Whereas when you look at the NBA.com or other kind of stats, you can separate the leagues eat more easily.

01:17:05.12
Russell Gibson
Yep.

01:17:06.04
Dan Shea
And, um you know, like easily, obviously, you know, first ballot Hall of Fame quality and NBA career by itself. But without the extra kind of ABA juice, which is hard to compare, different type of league.

01:17:19.99
Dan Shea
um

01:17:20.36
Russell Gibson
Yep.

01:17:21.07
Dan Shea
ah Wasn't playing against the same, like his NBA contemporaries at the time. And that was sort of what, yeah, he was, he was both like my my, of them, he was kind of my first cut. Yeah.

01:17:31.78
Russell Gibson
yeah

01:17:32.77
Dan Shea
Yeah.

01:17:34.78
Russell Gibson
Some interesting ones there.

01:17:38.25
Russell Gibson
Andrew, are you going to be able to recover from the Karl Malone pick?

01:17:42.84
Andrew Lewis
I'll get there. I'll get there. i i'd like To be fair, there was a point where I had him eighth and then he ended up 11th on my list because I just kept remembering dudes.

01:17:53.09
Russell Gibson
Yep. Yeah, yeah, okay.

01:17:55.19
Andrew Lewis
So it's just like, oh yeah.

01:17:56.14
Russell Gibson
Okay, yep.

01:17:57.66
Andrew Lewis
So...

01:17:59.10
Russell Gibson
I don't know. I don't know. I don't know what my soft spot for that Utah. team of the 90s is, but yeah, I feel like they would have won some chips if MJ hadn't have been a thing.

01:18:11.45
Dan Shea
Mm-hmm.

01:18:12.10
Andrew Lewis
I mean, it's that's a it's a pretty decent what if to to talk about.

01:18:12.19
Russell Gibson
Anyway.

01:18:18.12
Andrew Lewis
That might be something we do next year when we take over your podcast in August.

01:18:23.83
Russell Gibson
Cool. Yeah, that's fair. Like the off season.

01:18:24.80
Andrew Lewis
What ifs and tied it with cards.

01:18:25.47
Russell Gibson
and Yeah. russell guy russell Russell goes on holiday again. We can we can definitely explore that.

01:18:31.66
Andrew Lewis
We're just going to stamp that flag. We own your podcast for two two weeks in August.

01:18:35.19
Russell Gibson
Let's just hijack the pod. It's great.

01:18:37.31
Andrew Lewis
Yeah.

01:18:37.68
Russell Gibson
It's great. um Awesome. Well, I mean, we'll put up the third part eventually, but if you guys are keen at home to find out who we draft as the top 10 centres of all time, and we'll probably do a bit of card stuff with it for consistency.

01:18:55.84
Andrew Lewis
There is a small chance Daniel picks Cherokee parks with the first pick. I'm just putting it out there. There's just, it's it's a chance. So you're telling me there's a chance. There's a chance.

01:19:03.54
Russell Gibson
Cedric. Cedric. Cedric.

01:19:08.09
Russell Gibson
um Yes, you can check that out on the three old guys talking ball. ah Thank you to everybody on that watches live on YouTube, everybody that watches the videos back on YouTube, ah those that give us likes, sub subscriptions that watch from all around the world, um those that listen on Central Coast Radio, and everybody that listens regularly in their car on their favorite podcast platform.

01:19:32.06
Russell Gibson
Thank you very much for a very pleasant evening. Thank you, Andrew. Thank you, Daniel. And we will see you all in the next episode.

01:19:43.93
Russell Gibson
I'm no longer live. I can hit the stop recording button.

01:19:47.08
Dan Shea
That was fun.