Episode 252: Collectors Buying the Hobby — BGS, PSA & Regrading Déjà Vu

In Episode 252, the conversation turns to a growing pattern in the hobby: collectors and capital circling grading companies, regrading cycles repeating themselves, and whether we’re learning anything from the past.

Russell and Adam unpack what it really means when collectors become stakeholders, how BGS and PSA fit into the current regrading narrative, and why trust, transparency, and incentives keep coming back into question.

The episode digs into:
 • collectors influencing the ecosystem they rely on
 • why regrading never seems to slow down
 • BGS vs PSA positioning in the current market
 • whether the hobby is stuck in a feedback loop
 • and what this all means for everyday collectors

A grounded discussion about power, perception, and whether the hobby can regulate itself.

🎧 Listen on Spotify:
 https://open.spotify.com/show/70w10XxmGviovd5T0LUFFc

Transcript

00:00:00.00
Adz
all all

00:00:13.21
Adz
Welcome everybody to episode 252.

00:00:19.32
Adz
of the You Can't Comp This NBA Trading Card Podcast, where your hosts, Adam, Amy, and Russell Gibson. And boy, talk about a festive season. There is lots of festivity in the news.

00:00:33.78
Adz
ah It's just a lot happening. It's very busy is what I meant. um

00:00:37.34
Russell Gibson
I don't know if it's festive, is it?

00:00:39.05
Adz
I don't know, but it's busy. There's lots of it. It's chaos. It's like the, it's it's kind of like, you know, the hustle and bustle this time of year. It feels like trading card news is in the same vein.

00:00:46.68
Russell Gibson
is so

00:00:50.42
Russell Gibson
So if PSA is up to their shenanigans, we just call it festive. Or if PSA is up to their festive activities again.

00:00:56.63
Adz
It is. v Yeah.

00:00:57.14
Russell Gibson
Is that what we say now, is it?

00:00:57.83
Adz
Yeah. Yeah. It's like Santa's workshop, isn't it? No.

00:00:59.99
Russell Gibson
This is festive.

00:01:00.15
Adz
Or is that, is Santa's workshop tops or is that.

00:01:04.97
Russell Gibson
I think, actually, when I was in high school, for don't ask me the reason why for this, but if something was um festive, it was like rotten and, um yeah, but we would call it festive.

00:01:05.80
Adz
Hmm. Hmm.

00:01:13.73
Adz
Festy. Festy. Yeah.

00:01:17.04
Russell Gibson
So actually, this is like fantastic to now describe PSA.

00:01:21.14
Adz
Festivus.

00:01:21.79
Russell Gibson
Festive.

00:01:25.44
Adz
Festivus.

00:01:26.53
Russell Gibson
Yeah.

00:01:27.51
Adz
It's like mischievous, but anyway. Oh God, I'm not mincing.

00:01:29.24
Russell Gibson
Something like that.

00:01:30.15
Adz
I'm not mincing words.

00:01:31.74
Russell Gibson
Anyway, all right, so this week we're going to talk about Collector's Holdings buying BGS, which we have to talk about. I'm not really that fussed about it, though. um We're going to talk about Cooper Flag. There's been some pretty amazing Cooper stuff happening at the moment.

00:01:45.94
Russell Gibson
We've got a true or false segment just for you, ad just to see if you're paying attention, to see what's been going on.

00:01:49.96
Adz
Oh, this is going go badly.

00:01:52.02
Russell Gibson
Gem rate check-in, but the thing that I actually most want to talk to you about this week is a story about a Wilt Chamberlain a rookie card that was downgraded from 10 to 9 by PSA.

00:02:03.78
Russell Gibson
So we'd previously spoken about that and I sort of remember saying that that was like a you know a a Wondershine level card and and i thought that was like you know one of the best ever.

00:02:14.01
Adz
Mm-hmm.

00:02:15.74
Russell Gibson
So yeah, I'm really, really interested to talk about this because it also then, you know it's it's a really cool card, but it's also this whole issue around PSA changing their grades after the fact, which we spoke about last week with that whole Pokemon nonsense thing.

00:02:28.76
Russell Gibson
So

00:02:28.92
Adz
The upcharge, downcharge stuff. Like what the hell's going yeah Anyway, we'll get into that.

00:02:31.45
Russell Gibson
Yeah. And the guy who broke the story, I reached out to him and he's been having some really you know great back and forth. So that's tj.is online. So thank you so much, mate. I'm going to thank you again later in the show, but just to sort of give you a heads up.

00:02:43.77
Adz
agree.

00:02:45.10
Russell Gibson
We're going to heap shit on LeBron James because he deserves it.

00:02:48.09
Adz
i agree

00:02:48.98
Russell Gibson
um And then we've got some other you know cool stuff to talk about too. so But let's get straight into it. And we're going to start off this week with a with an ad from Adam, actually. So

00:02:57.99
Adz
I'm going to do a read. This is something...

00:03:00.22
Russell Gibson
and of put you under the pump here. Yeah.

00:03:01.37
Adz
Well, it's interesting, right?

00:03:01.46
Russell Gibson
yeah

00:03:02.49
Adz
Because normally i'm I'm very off the cuff. So me having a read is something different for the show.

00:03:07.09
Russell Gibson
Yep. It's a chat that's your this week's challenge ad.

00:03:07.96
Adz
um But we we have. We've been... um we've We've had this feature for a little while. We've just been very bad at it's spruiking it, I guess.

00:03:13.85
Russell Gibson
then

00:03:16.60
Adz
So...

00:03:16.65
Russell Gibson
We've been festive. We've been festive.

00:03:17.82
Adz
Yeah. ba

00:03:18.53
Russell Gibson
It's brooking it.

00:03:19.13
Adz
it Yeah.

00:03:19.17
Russell Gibson
Yeah. Yeah.

00:03:20.37
Adz
It's because of the festive this season. um But yes, if everyone enjoys out and thinks our content is, is worthwhile, which is questionable week to week and, and you're enjoying what you're listening to you can support the show by heading to your favorite podcast platform, opening any of the episodes and clicking the link that says support the show.

00:03:31.13
Russell Gibson
Yep.

00:03:42.54
Adz
That's where you can make a one-off or an ongoing contribution.

00:03:46.86
Russell Gibson
Yep.

00:03:47.66
Adz
Funds are a bit tight and you'd like to support other ways. You can help us out by following or liking, subscribing on all of the platforms. Now, there's a few here, so strappy.

00:03:56.90
Russell Gibson
Yeah, with this, yep.

00:03:58.13
Adz
We've got YouTube, obviously. So go and go and hit that like, but the the subscribe button for for YouTube. Get the notifications if you want to know when we go live. Don't have to click the bell if you don't.

00:04:09.02
Adz
um But we put a of a thing.

00:04:09.69
Russell Gibson
Yeah, you you do. You do. You have to.

00:04:11.19
Adz
You have to

00:04:11.37
Russell Gibson
Yeah. Yeah, that's right.

00:04:12.41
Adz
Just that but if they subscribe and don't.

00:04:12.73
Russell Gibson
It's the part of the Festivus. Come on, Ed. Yeah.

00:04:15.80
Adz
All right, do the whole bit, the whole bit, whole kit and caboodle.

00:04:17.35
Russell Gibson
that's a yeah

00:04:19.28
Adz
You can change the options later. um Facebook,

00:04:21.85
Russell Gibson
What's the over-under of how many times we say festive this episode? I'm going to go for at least 12. think

00:04:26.49
Adz
um whatever it is, it's the overs. I feel like this might just...

00:04:31.22
Russell Gibson
think we're already up to about five. Yeah.

00:04:32.44
Adz
This is this week's, yeah, part of the festivities.

00:04:34.22
Russell Gibson
Yeah.

00:04:35.29
Adz
um

00:04:35.32
Russell Gibson
Yeah.

00:04:36.12
Adz
Facebook, you guys should all understand how Facebook works. It's just a big thumbs up. It's a like. ah Instagram, just just follow us, I think. it's Just follow on Instagram. Do you have to do anything else?

00:04:45.17
Russell Gibson
That'll do. Yep.

00:04:46.10
Adz
share Share things with your friends. If you think something we share we we post is funny on Instagram, go go ahead and and share that.

00:04:51.77
Russell Gibson
hundred percent.

00:04:53.88
Adz
um

00:04:53.88
Russell Gibson
hundred percent.

00:04:54.68
Adz
Same goes for insta to sorry Twitter, also now known as X, and TikTok. So, The easiest part of this is all you need to do is search for You Can't Comp This.

00:05:06.43
Adz
Don't forget to turn on auto downloads on all of your podcast platforms. So even if you you put it in the bank to listen to later, we do appreciate the downloads.

00:05:16.56
Russell Gibson
That's it. And now thanks to ChatGPT for um helping me out with the formatting and um correct grammar on that festive piece of...

00:05:25.30
Adz
Excellent. and And thank you, Russell, for providing some wording and I'm sorry for going off script.

00:05:29.95
Russell Gibson
That's all good. Alrighty, so let's get on with the show. Last week, Anthony Milne had a question for us, which we thought we'd save for this week. Is Giddy and Reeves a good comparison for All-Star this year?

00:05:41.91
Russell Gibson
And which one would you choose? I'll let you kick this one off, mate.

00:05:45.82
Adz
I'll let you have Josh Giddey, because I'm taking my boy in purple and gold, Austin Reeves.

00:05:51.64
Russell Gibson
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

00:05:51.83
Adz
i i have I've voiced my ah happiness to his ah ascension to being one of the best players there. I actually don't think the Lakers can give him up after this year and they have to pay the man.

00:06:04.92
Adz
I think Austin Reeves is putting up career numbers as well as like the guys was considered in the top 10 for MVP before he got injured. I think Austin Reeves is having a a killer season. He's playing Robin to to to Luka Doncic as Batman um while I guess the brooding is done by LeBron in the corner. But I don't know. I think Austin Reeves has had an amazing season and he deserves that credit.

00:06:31.54
Adz
I would have said he's on track for kind of all NBA level stardom, but given he's been out for a few games now, maybe that's not a thing.

00:06:39.48
Russell Gibson
Yeah, I think, yeah.

00:06:41.05
Adz
He might might end up out of contention, but all-star, ah if yeah ah if I had to vote for two Lakers, they would be Luka Doncic and Austin Reeves.

00:06:54.14
Russell Gibson
I think I've still got a bit of a hangover from the Thunder trading Giddy away and then winning a chip because I'm, I'm sure you guys already know this already.

00:07:00.15
Adz
Hmm.

00:07:04.22
Russell Gibson
Like I love players that win and I love defensive first players. Shout out to Herb Jones getting eight steals this week. And so like for me, Giddy until he wins is almost a losing player.

00:07:19.64
Russell Gibson
And that might sound a little bit harsh, but that's sort of where my head is with that. So if I have to choose between the two, actually, i i really think what Reeves did this season has been pretty phenomenal.

00:07:23.00
Adz
accurate.

00:07:29.68
Russell Gibson
And I think with LeBron out at the start of the year and then really the Lakers exceeded all expectations, And there is almost a narrative to be said that he was playing as well, if not better than Luko, which is a pretty crazy thing to say.

00:07:44.11
Russell Gibson
So I'm still going to stand by my thing if they need to trade Reeves and get, you know, another third, you know, huge sort of superstar, like into a package for Giannis or something ridiculous like that.

00:07:55.07
Russell Gibson
Like ah that's what I'd really like to see for him.

00:07:56.70
Adz
I think this season might be the write-off season.

00:07:57.23
Russell Gibson
So.

00:07:59.74
Adz
They just see what they what they need for next year. Let LeBron go away, and then we can spend all that money.

00:08:02.52
Russell Gibson
Yeah.

00:08:05.21
Russell Gibson
Yeah. Yeah.

00:08:06.39
Adz
They've got $50 million dollars in their cap that belongs to LeBron James.

00:08:08.98
Russell Gibson
Yeah.

00:08:10.32
Adz
Some of that will go to Austin Reeves, and the rest will go to another piece.

00:08:13.65
Russell Gibson
Yeah.

00:08:13.85
Adz
I think the Lakers will be fine, but...

00:08:17.40
Russell Gibson
I really wish we had some sort of um intro music for this next piece because it is kind of a big deal, but this is an article I found on ESPN. PSA's parent company, which is Collectors, buys card grading rival Beckett.

00:08:31.54
Russell Gibson
The monetary details of the deal haven't been made available. I think at this point, no one actually cares how much they were sold for. i got the feeling that it's a completely distressed asset and PSA picked them up for pennies of the dollar.

00:08:44.70
Russell Gibson
And um I think the are the topics for us to talk about surrounding this for me is what does this mean for the long term of the hobby?

00:08:58.65
Russell Gibson
how does this build PSA slash BGS's capacity? Because even though they've publicly said they're going to be still separate companies, I find that really hard to believe. Like,

00:09:10.20
Russell Gibson
Why would they not use that grading space that BGS isn't currently utilizing? you know Why wouldn't they use all the grading knowledge that BGS has on board and all that expertise?

00:09:16.53
Adz
Yep.

00:09:19.10
Adz
Yeah.

00:09:19.67
Russell Gibson
um you know Wouldn't they cross-reference and and help each other out? like That to me, like that that sounds like it doesn't make anything. What about consumer confidence? I'm going to let you talk about your regulation of the hobby and then we're going talk about some negatives and we'll just go on to a few other little bits and pieces.

00:09:36.01
Russell Gibson
So starting at the very top is buying the distressed asset. I think I've said, what else do we need to talk about that?

00:09:41.31
Adz
that's That's a smart business decision. I

00:09:43.58
Russell Gibson
I actually think BGS is lucky they got bought out. Like what was the next step for them? Honestly, it's, it's been a very, very slow death with this company.

00:09:50.81
Adz
i feel like they're in a position where they could have had a tactical rebrand and I think they opted against it trying to double down on what they had and they, yeah.

00:09:51.00
Russell Gibson
i

00:09:58.87
Russell Gibson
right I think they tried, man.

00:09:59.74
Adz
Yeah.

00:10:00.83
Russell Gibson
I think like they actually were trying to do some social media posts and you know make themselves look cool and all that type of stuff.

00:10:05.27
Adz
Yeah.

00:10:06.75
Russell Gibson
And I think that actually backfired terribly. Yeah.

00:10:09.05
Adz
I think it backfired terribly because it should have just gone.

00:10:10.42
Russell Gibson
Yeah.

00:10:11.13
Adz
They needed to rebuild rather than try and take over again. They didn't realise where they sat in the hobby.

00:10:16.73
Russell Gibson
Yeah.

00:10:17.08
Adz
um I think it was a failed. they went they they They zagged when they sort of zigged. I don't think they had any realistic view of how much of a monopoly PSA had and how much their brand image was held up by history, not so much present.

00:10:34.33
Russell Gibson
Yeah. Yeah, definitely.

00:10:35.74
Adz
Anyway.

00:10:37.11
Russell Gibson
What does this mean for the long-term of the hobby? And I think we can probably tie this in with, you know, regulation of the hobby. Where are you at with that? Because i I feel like you've got the, you'll have the most to say about this.

00:10:44.31
Adz
I made I've made you concerns and it's probably, probably ah a subject that maybe well we'll wait until a little bit more is coming out and we touch on it.

00:10:45.90
Russell Gibson
Yeah.

00:10:51.90
Adz
But I, I think

00:10:52.28
Russell Gibson
Yeah, sure. I think more does need to come out, but I think we can also speculate. it Like what's your biggest concern? So when you heard about this, I'm sure you, yeah.

00:10:57.78
Adz
the monopoly concern, the the monopoly concern is the biggest one. It's just like, okay, PSA is just going to start collecting all of the grading companies till they are the gods of grading.

00:11:01.19
Russell Gibson
Yeah.

00:11:08.18
Adz
And I'm sorry, but we need a fair and balanced conversation

00:11:16.37
Russell Gibson
Well, to take your phrase, though, what else do they need to buy to become the god of grading? like that's That's it now, isn't it?

00:11:21.53
Adz
But they've been but they've they've they've they've now taken, what is they've tipped over 80% share, haven't they? So there's, and ah the thing that I'm talking, I don't want to go into the the the Senator's paper and investigation just yet, because that's a, I think that's almost a separate topic because ah that's whole hobby regulation in my view.

00:11:27.19
Russell Gibson
Easily.

00:11:35.35
Russell Gibson
We'll get to that in a second, yeah.

00:11:42.30
Adz
um But I think it opens that door. And I think, it's all well and good while things look good. And we've seen stuff start to look bad. So i don't know. i think if there's only one, one major player, then the opportunities for exploitation become more and more evident. And I just, i just don't think a monopoly is good for the hobby.

00:12:06.81
Russell Gibson
Yeah, so just like hold that thought for two seconds because this is probably what I've been thinking about.

00:12:10.02
Adz
Yeah.

00:12:12.23
Russell Gibson
So whether this is true or not, like we'll see. I have to see how this plays out. But we've had that incident recently.

00:12:15.72
Adz
Yeah.

00:12:18.94
Russell Gibson
and let's just say all of what we spoke about last week isn't true. But let's say 50% of it true is that PSA can buy cards off people at BGS9 and regrade them to a 10.

00:12:30.23
Russell Gibson
So let's just say some of that is true and now use that for this life.

00:12:34.58
Adz
You mean PSA 9 and turn a PSA 9 into a 10?

00:12:37.52
Russell Gibson
Yeah. Right. But what if you could buy BGS nine and turn into a PSA 10?

00:12:44.31
Adz
Correct.

00:12:45.50
Russell Gibson
What if you could buy an SGC nine and turn it into a 10? Like at this point in time, because there's no oversight now, like pretty much at all. Cause my sort of feeling was the only thing that was really holding PSA to account was probably BGS.

00:13:00.76
Russell Gibson
And now that's gone because there's no real company that's got the providence that BGS had or has.

00:13:06.14
Adz
No one yet you cross over a BGS 9.5 because you know it it's it there's a high probability of a 10 because they're a quality

00:13:12.15
Russell Gibson
Yeah, but like just say another – if another – yeah, but if another grading company called them out, they'd be like, look, I don't really don't care about your opinion. But if BGS called them out publicly, you'd probably have to go, look, there's probably something to be said about this, but like that really – that's not going to happen now. like Let's be honest about this. like There's no way that they're going to call out their parent company – um You know, about something like that. So I think, you know, like if you're asking me, you know, about that, because also to you think about pop reports, how muddy they are already, like people cracking cards and sending them back in.

00:13:44.76
Russell Gibson
Like if they're not returning the the grading label, as as far as the ledgers show that that card's still sitting in the registry.

00:13:51.16
Adz
Well, I do think that this acquisition, this type of acquisition, and I'm not accusing anybody of anything, saying this type of acquisition turns what's already muddied water by collectors, like the community are the ones that crack it and regrade it, right? Right.

00:14:11.26
Adz
So we've got these pop reports that are already murky because we don't know how many times the same card's been graded, et cetera, et cetera. And now we've got a ah further layer of muck in this pond with, we actually don't know what internal controls there are to regulate this stuff.

00:14:25.73
Russell Gibson
I mean,

00:14:29.85
Russell Gibson
I suppose maybe I'm making accusations, but I'm more just thinking about as a business model. Like we spoke about this last week.

00:14:35.39
Adz
Oh, I'm just, not I'm not saying they're actually doing I'm saying they've got the opportunity to do it.

00:14:35.75
Russell Gibson
Yeah, 100%. So where can PSA scale, right?

00:14:40.25
Adz
Yeah.

00:14:41.74
Russell Gibson
So they've scaled by buying BGS. So I think this is like, if we talk about ultra scale, which is what was like, we literally spoke about this last week.

00:14:49.40
Adz
Yeah.

00:14:49.85
Russell Gibson
How can they scale further? Like this is it. That's what's what they've just done. And a part of their scale

00:14:53.62
Adz
Yeah, but if they've got a monopoly, they need to have a framework.

00:14:58.20
Russell Gibson
Yeah, but if part of their scale add those also to sell graded cards, like now they've got a huge avenue to do that. Like, so I don't know, like for me, that's, yeah. So building capacity, like like I kind of hope that they actually do work together, but I can also...

00:15:09.05
Adz
Yeah.

00:15:13.02
Adz
They can't, they they shouldn't be allowed to scale until they have a regulatory framework with which to give assurances to the people that are buying from them or grading with them that these things aren't intertwined and are not exposed to potential corruption.

00:15:28.41
Russell Gibson
Yeah, so I think now's the perfect time to bring up this article. Congressman calls for FTC to investigate collectors' holdings acquisitions at FTC and Beckett. I'm not going to read through this article. Basically, what I can do is I can summarize.

00:15:39.99
Russell Gibson
His kid had a shithouse time subbing his cards to PSA. He found out, like, what an absolute, you know, they're holding you over a barrel, basically, and then they went and bought...

00:15:46.13
Adz
Yeah.

00:15:51.80
Russell Gibson
this BGS company and he's now got political ties and enough power to do it. And this has been picked up by every, um, news avid, like this is everywhere. So, you you know, you can find this everywhere.

00:16:01.69
Adz
Everybody, everybody's on it.

00:16:03.54
Russell Gibson
You know, I think that's probably the end we can do about that. Do we want to go for a break? We'll come back and we'll do the last few dot points. What do you say? Yeah.

00:16:09.88
Adz
yeah Yeah, let's take a break.

00:16:11.32
Russell Gibson
Thank you to US Sports Cards Australia for your ongoing love and support of our podcast. We cannot thank you enough. As always, go to ussportscardsaustralia.com.au. There you'll find SEAL product, brakes, car protection, and of course, Russ's beloved water pistols.

00:16:27.03
Adz
Yes, yes. um Big thank you to Ross, who, who thanks to Australia Post ah delaying a shipment, um I got ah a gift from Ross. Some water pistols, which I haven't used yet because they even though we had a couple of hot days, it's just the time hadn't presented itself.

00:16:44.47
Russell Gibson
Failed opportunity, man.

00:16:45.53
Adz
But don't you worry.

00:16:45.59
Russell Gibson
Come on.

00:16:47.05
Adz
i' have assured Ross that I will be doing some testing from my balcony um through the summer periods.

00:16:50.49
Russell Gibson
Yeah.

00:16:53.94
Adz
And I will get back to you on how good these water pistols are.

00:16:55.85
Russell Gibson
Yep.

00:16:59.13
Russell Gibson
Go to Instagram and search for comca.tradingcards. If you look through Ross's Instagram, you'll see he's got an updated ah preview of his new website. It looks fantastic.

00:17:12.60
Russell Gibson
Also, when you do your sub to com.ca eight right on the form, anywhere on the form, you can't comp this. And just to clarify and make this really simple, you'll get your entire sub done for $0.09 if you use that promo code. there's no point in me saying it's free, but it's actually cost money. I'll just say it costs $0.09 and that's as that's as easy as it can.

00:17:31.35
Russell Gibson
Um, we've had recent sales or recent funds being trans transferred back to people's accounts, 600, 390, two 41 65.

00:17:31.40
Adz
Kitty out.

00:17:39.16
Russell Gibson
So he's getting volume of sales.

00:17:41.21
Adz
Nice.

00:17:41.62
Russell Gibson
It's, it's all, we're very proud of you, Ross. We you know how much work you've put into this all the late nights, mate. It's fantastic. So again, thank you to us sports cards, Australia for your ongoing love and support.

00:17:53.24
Russell Gibson
Alrighty, Adam, we're back. How you doing, buddy? All right.

00:17:55.57
Adz
I'm good. I'm good. um

00:17:57.63
Russell Gibson
Now, we were talking about the congressman. We've put that to bed. We now want to move on to the next dot point, which is what are the negatives that you think could come out of this?

00:18:08.38
Adz
Well, it's just open to exploitation. And and I think i it's corruption and exploitation.

00:18:11.01
Russell Gibson
Exploitation, yep.

00:18:14.20
Adz
And um and as a I don't want to sound like I'm accusing, but if the potential is there, then there's no framework in place.

00:18:20.60
Russell Gibson
Yep.

00:18:20.85
Adz
And I think, as as far as my regulate the hobby stance goes, I'm not saying that people are doing it. Obviously, we know there is a level of um exploitation when there's big money involved, but the temptation has got to be there. And if there's no regulatory framework to oversee what happens, then that risk just exponentially increases the bigger the monopoly gets.

00:18:46.65
Russell Gibson
Yeah, for sure. Do you see any positives of this acquisition?

00:18:53.94
Adz
um From the eyes PSA, they have less competition. I don't know. i actually, i I've, i've so all I've got, I haven't got positives and negatives. I've just got a bunch of concerns that that the red the red flags keep showing themselves at the moment.

00:19:05.85
Russell Gibson
So...

00:19:09.94
Russell Gibson
On that competition point, I actually think this is a positive because I think BGS was going to go under. So I don't think BGS would have sold for any other reason than that, right?

00:19:19.61
Adz
Fair.

00:19:21.08
Russell Gibson
So I think this was just like a

00:19:21.66
Adz
You think they just would have got, they the ship would have sunk.

00:19:23.93
Russell Gibson
This ship is thinking, you know, we need to get ourselves bailed out. So they've been bailed out, you know, for better or worse. Right. um And interestingly, you know, we're talking about a competition and also like, you know, getting their money back on their investment. CGC, which they've previously, sorry, SGC that they previously purchased.

00:19:42.14
Russell Gibson
That's not doing as well as prior to the acquisition. So that's a really interesting one. So, you know, if people are sort of saying at the moment, well,

00:19:49.08
Adz
They just run it into the ground.

00:19:50.69
Russell Gibson
BGS isn't doing that great now. So actually, you know, if we're looking at another similar case study, can we say they're actually you know going to be doing better?

00:19:55.23
Adz
They're going

00:19:58.07
Russell Gibson
I think that's going to be a tough one, but actually i think they need,

00:19:59.65
Adz
to it. Is there a way the PSA resurrects it?

00:20:04.54
Russell Gibson
you know, actually the funny thing for me is the thing i think that would have helped BGS all along is they got rid of the 9.5 and just made it either 9 or 10.

00:20:13.37
Adz
Interesting.

00:20:13.83
Russell Gibson
But now that, now that,

00:20:14.33
Adz
I think having that as a point of difference is always good.

00:20:17.21
Russell Gibson
Yeah, but now that Collectors owns it, in my mind now, they've got no motivation to do that. And so I think the thing that really people want from BGS is the black label. So I think they like have to keep that.

00:20:26.22
Adz
So, all right.

00:20:28.10
Russell Gibson
Yeah.

00:20:28.25
Adz
So, and and right, tinfoil hats out. let's let's Let's do it. yeah We've been talking about what PSA can do. we've we've We've talked about the potential of, you know, I've got my nine, I've sold my nine.

00:20:34.86
Russell Gibson
Yeah.

00:20:42.06
Adz
They're going to regrade it as a 10 and chuck it up. What happens? Because these reports, these grades that are that are done by PSA or by the graders,

00:20:54.17
Adz
won't be shared externally because it's it's it's proprietary information. It's it's confidential.

00:21:00.01
Russell Gibson
Surely

00:21:00.57
Adz
But if it's internal, ready for the ready for the conspiracy.

00:21:04.93
Russell Gibson
I'm ready.

00:21:05.53
Adz
If I grade a card through PSA, if PSA sees a card and they go, this is a black label, and they put a note on that card, and they reach out to someone and say, hey, you should probably cross this over to BGS.

00:21:18.81
Adz
Like this is identifying PSA 10s to regrade them into black labels.

00:21:23.42
Russell Gibson
Yeah. Why not? hundred percent.

00:21:25.94
Adz
what happens, but what happens when the grading standards change so everything becomes a black label?

00:21:26.17
Russell Gibson
Yeah. That's absolutely possible. I think. Yep.

00:21:34.74
Russell Gibson
I hope that's not the case because I think.

00:21:36.92
Adz
i just think there's, it goes both ways, right? How do you resurrect the BGS brand now that you own it? you You throw some more black labels into the market. People like, oh, maybe I'll go to collectors and grade with BGS. Takes pressure off PSAs, very full queues.

00:21:53.29
Russell Gibson
Yeah.

00:21:55.73
Russell Gibson
Yeah.

00:21:56.63
Adz
You can get the premium report from VSA where they might suggest that you cross it over.

00:21:59.55
Russell Gibson
So.

00:22:02.94
Russell Gibson
One of our listeners, Tiny Lee, was suggesting that they'll start upcharging for a black label.

00:22:08.02
Adz
Of course.

00:22:09.11
Russell Gibson
um Also, so let's if we can't answer this, that's totally fine. This is what Tiny asked me. Can you talk about every shop middlemanning as well as grading? So so essentially shops being the middleman to sub for PSA and BGS. I think he's kind of suggesting that like, that's a bit of a scam too.

00:22:30.39
Adz
Really?

00:22:30.42
Russell Gibson
I don't, I don't feel that's a scam.

00:22:30.88
Adz
That's

00:22:32.48
Russell Gibson
I think that's just a way that shops make money.

00:22:34.49
Adz
a supply chain. No, that's ah that's ah that's a logical.

00:22:36.05
Russell Gibson
It's a way that people can connect and um do it through ah a legitimate way. And you can sub your cards in, you know, in a safe way. Like for example, with the hobby and, you know, even how they paired up with fast break trading cards, they had, you know, insurance on all their cards and it was a very clear and transparentn transparent, transparent,

00:22:46.84
Adz
cra

00:22:50.62
Adz
Yeah. can i Can I just go to bat? Can I go to bat for every shop that I've dealt with with with regards to grading?

00:22:56.00
Russell Gibson
Sure.

00:22:59.19
Adz
And ah i'll I'll die on this hill. Shops don't make bugger all off the grading. It's a service for the community and it and it helps collectors get those cards in transit.

00:23:12.15
Russell Gibson
Yeah, i I agree with you.

00:23:12.23
Adz
There's the margins involved.

00:23:13.87
Russell Gibson
I think it would be a pretty low yield exercise.

00:23:16.41
Adz
the the mar You think about like a margin of a product, right?

00:23:17.59
Russell Gibson
Yeah.

00:23:20.98
Adz
like the effort that goes into the grading process, insurance, et cetera, et cetera. Yes, they do bulk submissions, so they get a minor discount. That minor discount is nowhere near the it like the work that goes into them making those submissions.

00:23:37.75
Adz
They are doing that for their communities, and they are doing that to facilitate something that's very difficult in Australia.

00:23:37.91
Russell Gibson
Yeah, I agree. But

00:23:43.80
Russell Gibson
i think I think that's like the business model of, say, 7-Eleven, where they sell you the $1 Slurpee, but then you go in there and you buy the bag of chips too and, you know, a lolly.

00:23:54.39
Russell Gibson
Like, I would assume that's the reason why they would do it. Yeah. Yeah. all Alrighty.

00:24:01.59
Adz
Because if you crack a card from their store, they'll offer to send it off for grading and they'll help you do it.

00:24:01.91
Russell Gibson
We're...

00:24:07.16
Russell Gibson
I reached out to Lane Pierce, speaking of 130 Point and The Hobby Australia, and here's his reply, his very short reply was this. If it helps improve their customer service, even slightly, it's a good thing.

00:24:18.45
Russell Gibson
As in, if it helps BGS.

00:24:19.56
Adz
Ha, ha, ha.

00:24:21.18
Russell Gibson
BGS have slid so far that I feel they would disappear completely. This avoids that from happening. And I feel like... That's probably the genesis of my you know my positive idea we were talking about earlier before. CGC put out a statement, which I actually think is worth reading word for word. A message from Steve Eshabam, CEO of Certified Collectibles Group. Yesterday's announcement only reinforces what I've been saying for a while. CGC is the clear choice for collectors. We offer fast turnaround times, consistent grading, the best holders, and great customer service, all done with integrity. So I think they're kind of taking a bit of a dig at the moment.

00:24:57.02
Russell Gibson
um you know so And if you guys remember the episode we did live from the Hobby Hangout, we we did the episode with the guys from Unboxed.

00:25:05.62
Adz
Yeah. yeah

00:25:06.23
Russell Gibson
And so that was Ray Raiden. And they are um huge believers in that whole sort of CGC thing. I did reach out to them. So guys, please reply back to my text. I would love to you know catch up with you guys.

00:25:21.21
Russell Gibson
and um get your opinion on that tag also put out a statement this is a little bit longer i'll just probably just read through bits and pieces industry changes worth paying attention to but consolidation alone doesn't redefine grading psa helped build this industry and its scale has contributed to the opportunity we all have today that deserves recognition however acquiring beckett doesn't change the fundament fundamentals of manual grading Combining two opinion-based systems doesn't create more transparency, consistency, or accurate population data. This is a scale move about volume, pricing power, ancillary services, and profit.

00:25:57.62
Russell Gibson
This is not a transformation in grading quality. We believe high-quality grading demands transparency, measurable standards, and reliable population reporting.

00:26:07.86
Russell Gibson
And I've got to tell you, going interrupt like this read. I am almost 100% in agreeance with everything they've said so far.

00:26:14.57
Adz
Yeah.

00:26:14.71
Russell Gibson
Manual grading, regardless of of size or self-proclaimed greatness, cannot eliminate subjectivity or fully track resubmissions. As the market becomes more informed, cards supported by clear, measurable grading will command greater confidence and higher long-term value. Tag was formed on a different premise. Trust must be earned through data, clarity, and accountability, not size. Our slabs are backed by quantifiable scoring, digital reports, and systems built to reduce subjectivity.

00:26:41.91
Russell Gibson
um They're also almost impossible to um to crack open to. As transparent standards scale and remote grading arrives in 2026, the conversation will shift from size to certainty.

00:26:47.56
Adz
Are

00:26:53.62
Russell Gibson
The next era of grading won't be louder. It will be clearer. Yeah.

00:26:59.90
Adz
they suggesting it's going to be clearer from them or?

00:27:03.16
Russell Gibson
I believe that the they do mostly AI grading and they also essentially take a picture of the card and use that as a footprint too, because they believe that each card is individually identifiable, even if it's not serial numbered.

00:27:03.74
Adz
It needs to be. Okay.

00:27:18.81
Adz
Yeah.

00:27:19.47
Russell Gibson
Yeah.

00:27:22.20
Adz
Interesting.

00:27:22.55
Russell Gibson
All right. What else have we got here? I think that's it. I think we've covered everything. So what's your final thought on this ad?

00:27:27.90
Adz
ah Final thoughts. are I'm concerned. I like the same thing is it's not about good bad. Otherwise, I'm just concerned that the focus these acquisitions and all of the moves, there doesn't seem to be any moves or statements from these companies about how they're going to have an integrity-based framework to stop the grading, the things happening at the grading stage.

00:27:47.71
Russell Gibson
Yeah.

00:27:57.90
Adz
And obviously it's a follow-on from last week.

00:27:58.10
Russell Gibson
Yeah.

00:28:00.46
Adz
when If they're entering the selling arena, then it's it's concerning. and And the whole monopoly thing is is the biggest part of that because the more control one entity has, the less visibility and accountability is perceived by the public.

00:28:22.49
Russell Gibson
Do you know, weirdly, i'm I'm more worried about PSA selling cards than them owning BGS.

00:28:28.22
Adz
I think i think it's just that they all follow on to one another.

00:28:31.42
Russell Gibson
But BGS is such a small piece of the pie.

00:28:33.08
Adz
yeah But it's just an absorption.

00:28:34.30
Russell Gibson
You know?

00:28:34.40
Adz
No, no, no, but it's and ah but the thing is, right, what's what's the one thing that used to stand out with BGS. It was the quality of the grading.

00:28:43.08
Russell Gibson
Well...

00:28:44.47
Adz
But the black the theer that the search for black labels, there's no other company where you're like, I'm so confident in flipping the 9.5s because they'll come back as a 10 from PSA.

00:28:56.39
Russell Gibson
Yeah.

00:28:57.08
Adz
To me, that suggests that BGS's grading practices and standards are higher than PSA's. And I think we're going to lose that element of quality and the quality being the black label, obviously.

00:29:11.06
Adz
but But I feel like that that will be absorbed, especially if BGS drift off into to non-existence after after this acquisition. If they go just as bad as SGC, they'll they'll just go belly up.

00:29:23.51
Adz
Like they'll just disappear. Collectors will be like, you know what? We're just going to shut this arm down because it doesn't work. Oh, there goes the 9.5. Oh no, there goes the black label. Oh, well, let's depend on the PSA 10. This is – but

00:29:37.88
Russell Gibson
I actually find it hard to believe that you couldn't make Beckett profitable in some capacity. And I also find it a bit weird that they would spend all that.

00:29:46.04
Adz
this is –

00:29:48.98
Russell Gibson
Well, we don't know how much money they spend, but like spend that money just to sink the company.

00:29:52.30
Adz
it's distressed Distressed asset.

00:29:52.85
Russell Gibson
Hmm.

00:29:54.06
Adz
You're buying it to... No, no, but youre take you're actually taking out the but this is better quality argument from all of PSA. Because it is. They don't grade as much, but there are people that have got a lot of BGS cards.

00:30:07.99
Adz
And the black label gets way more attention than a PSA 10. That's for sure.

00:30:12.66
Russell Gibson
Yeah, no, I'm not debating that. We don't have time.

00:30:15.26
Adz
and taking they're taking They're taking that out of the market and that's worth the price they paid, I reckon.

00:30:20.95
Russell Gibson
So you think it's a strategy to remove black labels?

00:30:23.83
Adz
Well, they're either going to double down and try and rebuild Beckett to make it appear that there's some, that the Monopoly's not there, or they're going to sink that ship and remove it.

00:30:34.10
Russell Gibson
yeah i'm Yeah, I'm not sure.

00:30:36.50
Adz
Time will tell.

00:30:37.95
Russell Gibson
Yep, time will tell. All right, let's do one more quickie, and then we will go for a cup of tea. All right, this is Stefan Castle, Nebula Choice, one of one, versus Jalen Williams, Gold Prism, PSA 10.

00:30:57.75
Russell Gibson
Basically sold for the same price, $52,000, within month of each other. within a month of each other

00:31:06.39
Adz
Yes. I it.

00:31:07.10
Russell Gibson
I am probably going to go for the Jalen Williams just because i still believe that Jalen Williams is overall undervalued. And I'm a little bit worried about the log jam in San Antonio.

00:31:23.03
Russell Gibson
And I probably think Dylan Harper is, I think Castle's a good prospect, but I think Harper is probably already better.

00:31:23.86
Adz
love it

00:31:28.27
Russell Gibson
So um yeah, that's where I'm at with that one.

00:31:31.89
Adz
I am so glad you picked the the Williams. I am taking Stephon Castle. Seven days out of seven. It's a one of one.

00:31:41.02
Russell Gibson
Yeah.

00:31:41.06
Adz
It's a nebula. It's the sexy one of one because it's not just the black.

00:31:43.80
Russell Gibson
Yeah.

00:31:45.58
Adz
Although, being the Spurs, the black might have even been cooler. But, no, Stephon Castle is... This guy's elite. This guy is absolutely elite.

00:31:58.19
Adz
So I think in the fact that the Spurs did make it to the final of the the NBA Cup, they didn't quite get there at the end, but they took down the Thunder.

00:32:05.64
Russell Gibson
Yeah.

00:32:08.22
Adz
I thought that was very impressive. And that man, Stefan Castle, was part of the reason. I think he is there for the long run. I hope I haven't put the moz on him.

00:32:14.70
Russell Gibson
Okay. Yep. Yep.

00:32:18.39
Adz
I think they can coexist. I think they will find a way. They are the Spurs and they are a system. They will find a way.

00:32:26.05
Russell Gibson
Alrighty, tea time. The Bang Man. This ad is brought to you by The Bang Man. Ripping and NBA cases weekly with fast weekly shipping straight to your door. The group is absolutely on fire right now. They recently pulled the Polo Banchero Immaculate Logam in Patch Auto 1 of 1, which they sold the very next day for $60,000 AUD.

00:32:46.58
Russell Gibson
If you want in on the action, head to Facebook groups and search The Bang Man. Also, Amir is currently running a one-of-one bounty, which will increase $25 per break, excuse me, and then max out at $1,000.

00:33:02.10
Russell Gibson
think it's currently at $200, something like that.

00:33:05.43
Adz
Nice.

00:33:05.62
Russell Gibson
Join the hype, join the hits, join The Bang Man. Thank you so much to Team Bang Man and Amir for your support.

00:33:15.59
Russell Gibson
Alrighty, Ad, we are back and we are going to play a little bit of True or False.

00:33:23.43
Adz
I thought you were going some crazy intro music then.

00:33:25.43
Russell Gibson
Well, do you know what? i really want an intro music for every time we talk about Jeff Wilson. So it's like...

00:33:32.76
Adz
a

00:33:34.68
Russell Gibson
Jeff Wilson or someone like yodeling his name. So if anyone is a um listener to the show and also has the unique talent of being able to yodel, could you please DM me and we'll organize ah you um a recording and you can send that to me and we can play that during the show.

00:33:38.65
Adz
Yeah.

00:33:52.90
Russell Gibson
That would really make me happy. True or false collectors holdings now own PSA, BGS and SGC.

00:34:01.08
Adz
True or false what?

00:34:03.30
Russell Gibson
Collectors Holding now own PSA, BGS, and SGC.

00:34:07.03
Adz
False.

00:34:11.07
Russell Gibson
Isn't that true?

00:34:12.55
Adz
Collectors don't, don't PSA own collectors?

00:34:15.76
Russell Gibson
Nah, Collectors is like the parent company of it all.

00:34:17.66
Adz
Oh, okay.

00:34:18.56
Russell Gibson
Yep.

00:34:18.71
Adz
True.

00:34:19.70
Russell Gibson
Well done. As a rookie, Cooper Flag it is having a more efficient scoring season than LeBron James' rookie year.

00:34:29.23
Adz
say true because otherwise it wouldn't be a question.

00:34:30.20
Russell Gibson
That is true.

00:34:31.50
Adz
Oh,

00:34:31.86
Russell Gibson
It is true, but LeBron is having a better passing season.

00:34:35.83
Adz
interesting.

00:34:36.76
Russell Gibson
Chet Holgram, silver PSA 10 is down 21% the last three months.

00:34:43.96
Adz
True. It's underrated, underrated that card.

00:34:44.82
Russell Gibson
Very good. Darren Fox, silver PSA 10 is up 21% the last three months.

00:34:52.03
Adz
In the last three months is up.

00:34:53.31
Russell Gibson
Yeah. Correct.

00:34:56.38
Adz
False.

00:34:57.32
Russell Gibson
No, that's true.

00:34:58.17
Adz
It is true.

00:34:59.06
Russell Gibson
It is true. Tim Duncan flawless autograph to 25 just sold for 1,200 USD.

00:35:12.06
Adz
true

00:35:12.63
Russell Gibson
that is true.

00:35:13.82
Adz
yes

00:35:14.81
Russell Gibson
That is true. Wilt Chamberlain 1961 Fleer has been downgraded from 10 to 9.

00:35:24.56
Adz
If I hadn't read any of the news, I would say false.

00:35:26.90
Russell Gibson
Yeah.

00:35:27.16
Adz
How how could that happen? And is true.

00:35:31.90
Russell Gibson
Yeah. And that will lead us into our next segment, but very last true or false before we do move on.

00:35:32.32
Adz
Shockingly true.

00:35:37.53
Russell Gibson
Josh Hart stuck his thumb into Jalen Bronson's bunghole during the Knicks Cup celebration.

00:35:43.16
Adz
True.

00:35:43.80
Russell Gibson
That would be true.

00:35:45.48
Adz
Goodness.

00:35:46.33
Russell Gibson
Josh Hart, what are you doing, mate?

00:35:52.02
Adz
Sorry, I've got i've got Anthony Milne who's watching as always in the live feed. He's like, just play the big show WWE wwe intro for the Jeff Wilson show.

00:36:05.46
Adz
He also said, based on the previous segment, now there's going to be a lot of Michael Jordan rookies grading as a BGS black label magically coming across from PSA. Of

00:36:21.98
Russell Gibson
all Alrighty. My beloved Twitter has delivered again for us. This is from TJ is online, which is slightly derivative of his Instagram handle, but it's the same guy.

00:36:26.46
Adz
course. Fair.

00:36:34.05
Adz
Fair.

00:36:34.33
Russell Gibson
um this was posted on the 18th of December and this was pretty big. So this, this blew up in a pretty big way. it was picked up by Boston card Hunter. It was picked up by jeff Wilson, you know, the whole thing.

00:36:47.10
Adz
Yeah.

00:36:47.41
Russell Gibson
So this, you know, really did become a story. I think this is relevant also too, because, I think if we're all being honest, that Pokemon changing of grade story from just a week ago was still fresh in everyone's mind.

00:37:00.78
Russell Gibson
So this is interesting.

00:37:01.37
Adz
yeah

00:37:02.82
Russell Gibson
I was just checking the 1961 Fleer-Wilt Chamberlain pop report on Card Ladder and saw that the PSA 10 pop decreased by one. to three. So meaning there was four and now there's three.

00:37:15.90
Adz
yeah

00:37:15.99
Russell Gibson
And I saw the same on GemRate, did some digging. The PSA 10 that last sold in August for $976,000 is now in a nine holder.

00:37:27.45
Russell Gibson
And so we we were talking about this the other week in terms of when they downgrade them, they don't give them a new serial number. And so I didn't really understand that, but I actually think for, you know, we talk about, trans you were talking about transparency or, you know, lack thereof.

00:37:44.79
Adz
Yeah, yeah.

00:37:45.78
Russell Gibson
This is actually an an example of transparency. So i think since that time, a lot of the information that you initially were reading online was all like just, you know, true Twitter trolls and there wasn't a lot of actual, you know, genuine information out there.

00:38:00.18
Adz
oh Sure, sure.

00:38:03.45
Russell Gibson
And so what I did piece together was that the card had been graded 25 years ago And so um that isn't fact, but let's just say it was graded a long time ago. like And we know that. It was one of the original cards that was sent to PSA.

00:38:22.20
Russell Gibson
um And this is also me summarizing a a DM conversation with TJIsOnline.

00:38:22.92
Adz
Okay.

00:38:28.15
Russell Gibson
So a massive shout out to him.

00:38:28.34
Adz
Sure, sure.

00:38:29.55
Russell Gibson
He's been very helpful with all this.

00:38:29.82
Adz
Yeah.

00:38:31.86
Russell Gibson
um From what I could understand, it needed to be re-encapsulated and was sent to PSA. And he clarified, no, it wasn't needed. it was re-holded for an August 2025 auction at Heritage.

00:38:47.10
Russell Gibson
So um my understanding was when it's re-holded, PSA will review the grade automatically.

00:38:48.25
Adz
Hmm.

00:38:54.81
Russell Gibson
And we again, we're talking about this last week. What triggers a card to be automatically reviewed and automatically be re-graded? His response was no, no, they do not. Sometimes they inspect cards again if the slab is cracked.

00:39:07.85
Russell Gibson
That wasn't the situation this time. The current owner asked for the card to be reviewed. Which is a really interesting one. So the owner of the card paid a lot of money for it. So obviously they've got their reasons for having the card to be reviewed.

00:39:22.62
Russell Gibson
Was the card downgraded to a PSA 9? Yes, it was. The card was returned to the owner as a PSA 9 and PSA paid the owner compensation. So he confirmed that yes and yes, because there was some speculation going around that PSA would keep the card.

00:39:40.98
Russell Gibson
So if they downgrade it, they compensate the the owner and they keep the PSA 9. That was what some people were saying around. And because the obvious narrative here is, oh, yeah, they pay out the owner at the PSA 9 price and then they keep it and they regrade it as a 10 and then sell it again, right?

00:39:55.10
Russell Gibson
Like that's the obvious narrative.

00:39:55.56
Adz
Mmm, mmm,

00:39:56.46
Russell Gibson
But for clarification, that is absolutely not as what's being reported as happening here. And so enter stage left, you know, Jeff Wilson.

00:40:08.47
Russell Gibson
Let me just quickly quickly find this. Jeff Wilson goes on to Twitter. PSA's grade guarantee just paid out $800,000 to a collector. This is one of the reasons why upchargers exist.

00:40:22.65
Russell Gibson
ducks for cover. um And then he goes on to say, you know, people are going back and forth with him. Can you point to any evidence they paid out the $800,000? No, I assume that based on market value difference, but now I'm reading their terms, so maybe not. So their terms say their maximum payout is $250,000 and that um they can make exceptions to that on a, you know, case by case basis. So i I'm really torn on this one because I think how cards were graded 20 years ago isn't how cards are being graded today.

00:41:04.79
Russell Gibson
Even though you would think it's an old card, so they should have some consistency on that. like That shouldn't change things that much in the last 20 years, but I will give them a pass on that.

00:41:12.05
Adz
um um

00:41:16.63
Russell Gibson
Um, I'm really, really, really, I really want to know this. Like, I want to know this so bad. I'll probably pay money to find out the answer to this. Um, how much they did compensate the person for that, because i think, you know, old mate was jumped the gun and said $800,000 in fact, it's absolutely not.

00:41:40.57
Russell Gibson
I think we we leverage so much on the value of the PSA compet compensation. So if they're not upholding that, like that really waters that value down for me.

00:41:51.12
Russell Gibson
Sorry, I interrupted then. What were going to say?

00:41:52.55
Adz
No, no. um'm I'm trying to go back to the episode that it happened. didn't Didn't this... Isn't there only one in existence?

00:42:03.03
Russell Gibson
So there's apparently those four.

00:42:04.54
Adz
This is bullshit. There's...

00:42:07.32
Russell Gibson
Why do you say that?

00:42:07.37
Adz
ah i Because didn't someone get it out of a garage sale thing and graded it was the only 10 in existence? a I'm sure. We're not...

00:42:17.91
Adz
Either that or I'm living in 1984. History's been rewritten and my brain's been... fried with old knowledge. But i

00:42:25.20
Russell Gibson
I have to admit, I actually thought the same thing. Yeah.

00:42:28.73
Adz
I thought there was one.

00:42:30.56
Russell Gibson
Yeah.

00:42:31.03
Adz
I thought there was one. This is the only one in existence. It came out of like a garage sale. Someone inherited a box out of a storage locker.

00:42:39.18
Russell Gibson
Yeah.

00:42:39.35
Adz
Oh my God, I'll get it graded. And it came back at 10. I said this was going to be a $3 million, $5 million dollars card because it's a one of one.

00:42:42.10
Russell Gibson
yeah

00:42:45.62
Russell Gibson
Yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah, me too.

00:42:47.54
Adz
Now all of a sudden there's four of them and now there's three. What?

00:42:54.30
Russell Gibson
I can't answer that right now, but I think we we we need to, it's going to take a bit of time to dig through that the PSA data on that too.

00:42:55.86
Adz
No, I think we need to go. we need

00:43:00.44
Adz
Well, if there's a listener if there's ah if there's a listener out there that remembers the episode where we talked about how this came back as a and it was graded a 10, I could be wrong.

00:43:00.69
Russell Gibson
I can do that for next week.

00:43:08.39
Russell Gibson
Yeah.

00:43:10.00
Adz
I could be very wrong. But I remember there was such a skint pop report because there's 33 nines and no 10s.

00:43:11.58
Russell Gibson
So...

00:43:18.67
Russell Gibson
Yeah. Hmm.

00:43:20.28
Adz
Because it it doesn't allow you to check PSA 10

00:43:25.17
Adz
right, in Card Ladder, but on the pop report it says there are three of them. There's only the one recorded sale,

00:43:38.94
Russell Gibson
While you're looking through that, I'll read the PSA official tweet on this. And this is almost so robotic, it's like it's been written in Morse code or something. These guys need to get some serious help with their this social media platform.

00:43:53.78
Russell Gibson
Recently, a 1961 Fleerwick Chumblin PSA 10 cert number... dot da da was submitted for a grade guarantee review by the owner of the card. After review, it was determined that the card should be graded PSA 9 per the PSA grading standards. The owner was compensated for the difference in value under the terms of the PSA grade guarantee.

00:44:12.05
Russell Gibson
That's it. Nothing else.

00:44:13.94
Adz
i want to see that I want to see some deeper shit about the pop report.

00:44:15.19
Russell Gibson
No back and forth in the comments. Just drop this down and run. Like, you know, Jeff Wilson talks about ducking for, you know, running and ducking for cover before.

00:44:22.78
Adz
Yeah.

00:44:23.55
Russell Gibson
Like that, that to me is running and ducking for cover 100%. Like, um

00:44:31.67
Adz
Yeah. Anthony mailed in the chat.

00:44:32.31
Russell Gibson
just staggering.

00:44:33.47
Adz
He's agreeing. It was only a few episodes ago we talked that it was pop one.

00:44:39.10
Adz
ah but ah I'm pretty, I don't know exactly which day it was, but I'm guessing it's the one, one of the Wondershine list cards because I said it was pop one.

00:44:48.02
Russell Gibson
Yeah. Yeah.

00:44:48.79
Adz
Um, but Anthony said, yeah, it was pop one three episodes ago.

00:44:49.85
Russell Gibson
I have a similar recollection to you. Yeah. I I'm not disagreeing with you. I'm just saying. Yeah.

00:44:53.96
Adz
Yeah.

00:44:55.61
Russell Gibson
Anyway, look, it's a, it's a really interesting one. And I actually hope we do follow back up on this one. You know, when a bit more information comes out and we can talk about it, what TJ did say to me in DM knows that,

00:45:03.58
Adz
Yeah. yeah

00:45:10.81
Russell Gibson
more information is going to come out on this. So we just have to kind of like hold our powder a little bit.

00:45:13.44
Adz
Okay.

00:45:15.61
Russell Gibson
Let's not jump to too many conclusions. But I think ultimately for me, the the thing I want to know is because if the card, let's just round up numbers here. So he paid $950,000 for it.

00:45:26.26
Russell Gibson
It's now being estimated the value is about $250,000.

00:45:26.71
Adz
Hmm.

00:45:28.21
Russell Gibson
Let's just he gets compensated $250,000 $300,000. let's just say he gets compensated two hundred and fifty to three hundred thousand dollars He's still out of pocket about two hundred and fifty k ah like at least right

00:45:39.25
Adz
Hmm.

00:45:39.49
Russell Gibson
I'm just using very round numbers here.

00:45:41.01
Adz
Hmm.

00:45:44.40
Russell Gibson
don't think this is the right word, but I don't think it's fair to do that to a customer either.

00:45:50.04
Adz
No, I don't think it's fair at all.

00:45:51.54
Russell Gibson
Yeah.

00:45:51.61
Adz
um There's more to this. There's got to be more to this.

00:45:54.20
Russell Gibson
Yeah. So whether that he owns, you know, some of the tens and he does want to have a bit of population control on it. You know, we've seen that before with that Pokemon guy deliberately damaging, you know, original Pokemon packets as they come out.

00:46:07.90
Russell Gibson
You remember that guy.

00:46:09.78
Adz
I remember that.

00:46:10.83
Russell Gibson
Yeah. Like what's the, you know, that's the same, exactly the same thing, isn't it?

00:46:16.28
Adz
Yeah. Yeah, i just, I'm very ready for it.

00:46:17.69
Russell Gibson
You ready for a break? Last thoughts?

00:46:20.21
Adz
Final thoughts.

00:46:20.22
Russell Gibson
Last thoughts?

00:46:21.05
Adz
We need to do some digging because there's something, something smells fishy.

00:46:21.26
Russell Gibson
Yeah.

00:46:25.66
Russell Gibson
Yeah.

00:46:26.42
Adz
I cannot bring the PSA 10 information up and I cannot see the history of that PSA 10 when it became pop count of three.

00:46:38.01
Russell Gibson
Do you know who might be able to help us with that is Ryan. Ryan.

00:46:40.65
Adz
Definitely.

00:46:43.16
Russell Gibson
all Alrighty, Neon Trading Cards, thank you so much for your ongoing support. Go to NeonTradingCards.com. There you'll find a huge array of breaks. Soccer, NBA, MLB, F1, AFL, and NRL, WWE, and Marvel. Find Neon Trading Cards on whatnot. They are one of the three Australian repackers on whatnot they are also a tops and fanatics direct breaking partner again very exclusive company here go check them out on neon trading cards.com for all of your breaking needs now also this week specific to neon it is a big week again for them tops chrome basketball is live on the website do not miss out on these breaks also neon will be breaking every day of the holidays with all of the top new releases and

00:47:19.64
Adz
Huge.

00:47:30.20
Russell Gibson
huge WhatNot stream on Christmas Day. So guys, if you're with family, you need a bit of a break. If you are by yourself and you need a bit of online company, if you are traveling and your family's in a different location, you just want to have a bit of buzz on in the background, put WhatNot Neon Trading Cards on.

00:47:50.55
Russell Gibson
You will love their Christmas stream a lot. Go to neontradingcards.com for your hobby related needs.

00:47:59.48
Russell Gibson
Adam, Have you caught your breath?

00:48:04.60
Adz
I have caught my i've caught my breath, yeah.

00:48:04.66
Russell Gibson
I think that was the first time you use profanity on the podcast ever in that last segment.

00:48:08.98
Adz
that's it When I said BS, yeah, yeah, yeah.

00:48:10.62
Russell Gibson
Yeah.

00:48:13.20
Russell Gibson
You're fired up fella.

00:48:13.29
Adz
I'm fired up. It's to regulation, the ho regulate the hobby episode.

00:48:15.28
Russell Gibson
Yeah.

00:48:17.58
Adz
That's why.

00:48:17.76
Russell Gibson
All

00:48:22.46
Russell Gibson
ah right. Cooper flag. We haven't spoken enough about this kid. I don't think ad he's young.

00:48:27.32
Adz
um was underwhelming. Dallas haven't been doing much.

00:48:28.49
Russell Gibson
He's very good.

00:48:29.32
Adz
They're not in the playoff picture.

00:48:29.88
Russell Gibson
Is he underwhelming? I'm not too sure about this.

00:48:32.08
Adz
Dallas were underwhelming.

00:48:33.69
Russell Gibson
This is from at extra stats on Twitter. I've got two words for you. Cooper flag and clutch time. Cooper flag, 12 made field goals in clutch time, which is leads the league at the moment and is shooting 70% on those attempts, which is by far, I know, wait except for Wemby.

00:48:46.45
Adz
Okay.

00:48:52.42
Russell Gibson
Wemby's at 75%, but he's six of eight. So it's definitely not got the volume that he's got. Um, fourth in total clutch points, um, behind SGA, Tyrese Maxey, and Cade Cunningham.

00:49:03.93
Russell Gibson
And basically, some of these stats have just never been done by a rookie before. Maybe a rookie back in the day did it, like Wilt Chamberlain or Jerry West, but they weren't counting stats in that stage. Let's talk about a Cooper flag card.

00:49:16.72
Adz
Yeah.

00:49:17.43
Russell Gibson
Recently sold for $180,000, 2025 Tops Silver Pack, Cooper Flag, Rookie Auto Super Fractor, one of one. That is an absolute mouthful.

00:49:29.02
Russell Gibson
That was from our friends at Card Letter. They posted that up. That's sold on December the 18th. So Merry Christmas to the owner and there's the seller of that card too. I think both of these people will be ecstatic by this.

00:49:41.98
Russell Gibson
All right, my question to you, Ad,

00:49:42.09
Adz
That's interesting.

00:49:44.47
Russell Gibson
If this is the new prism card that we are going to be looking at for the next 10 years or so how do you feel about the aesthetics of this card?

00:49:44.82
Adz
know

00:49:52.92
Adz
I don't like the rookie shield.

00:49:56.65
Adz
That's all.

00:49:57.40
Russell Gibson
Hmm.

00:49:58.65
Adz
You what mean? Like ah it it'll become the norm. It'll become the standard. I like I don't mind that we're um

00:50:08.09
Adz
I don't know. I don't mind that we're moving into a new era of card design. um It's a little busy for me. But yeah,

00:50:15.42
Russell Gibson
Yeah, that's that's my commentary on it too. It's like with the Topps Chrome logo, which is large, like it's so large, they don't even have a Dallas Mavericks logo on it. Like I would prefer Mavs logo probably over that.

00:50:24.63
Adz
Yeah.

00:50:26.88
Russell Gibson
And then also with that.

00:50:27.13
Adz
I was trying to figure out for something so busy, what is it actually missing? And it's like the team's logo is not there.

00:50:31.03
Russell Gibson
Yeah. And also it's got that 45 stamp on it too, which I'm like, oh do we maybe that could be on the back of the card.

00:50:31.85
Adz
Yeah.

00:50:34.94
Adz
I would have, that, no, that could have been the Chrome stamp, like the tops Chrome 45, like a special one, combine those and then have the team logo. But yeah, I don't know.

00:50:43.22
Russell Gibson
Maybe. Yeah. Yeah, that could be on the Topps Chrome.

00:50:44.94
Adz
Yeah. Yeah.

00:50:46.68
Russell Gibson
They don't need two Topps Chrome logos, do they? Look, I don't think it's terrible. Can I be honest with you? Actually, it's simplistic, but at the same time, it's a bit busy.

00:50:51.42
Adz
nice It's a nice card. I just think it's a little bit busy.

00:50:55.37
Russell Gibson
I agree with you. Yeah.

00:50:57.50
Adz
um

00:50:57.60
Russell Gibson
Alrighty. Yeah.

00:50:58.44
Adz
It's interesting that they didn't get the auto graded.

00:51:02.10
Russell Gibson
yes

00:51:02.78
Adz
and The card was just graded authentic. Nothing to do with the auto.

00:51:05.92
Russell Gibson
Gem rate check-in, we haven't done this for ages. So this is almost ah almost an apology to Ryan because we just haven't looked at his stuff for ages. Daily grading update, this is from December the 18th. Items graded yesterday, 85,000 by PSA. CGC at at at and tag now on the list at one point nine thousand

00:51:29.08
Adz
Well, now does Beckett stay on the list? Do you reckon? Oh, of course they will.

00:51:34.42
Adz
They will because they got they got acquired. They're not changing.

00:51:36.06
Russell Gibson
Still independent, yeah.

00:51:36.50
Adz
Yeah. Yeah. Okay.

00:51:38.10
Russell Gibson
I think probably the other, you know, the big movement too is just around what's being graded. 58,000 is TCG. The next biggest is baseball at 9,000 and basketball at 6,000. So TCG is holding up grading numbers as we speak.

00:51:55.80
Adz
Is that holding it up or is that actually blowing it out of the water? Like maybe, yeah, okay. That's probably, I don't i don't know if that's a good thing or a bad thing.

00:52:03.35
Russell Gibson
It's huge.

00:52:06.77
Adz
Actually, I'll rephrase that. TCG can be broken up into about six card games. So yeah, maybe, maybe it needs to be, maybe TCG has grown to the extent where you need to break that down into what games?

00:52:20.50
Russell Gibson
Yeah.

00:52:21.21
Adz
what trading cards there are, do you know what i mean? Like what percentage of that is Magic the Gathering? What percentage of that is Yu-Gi-Oh, Pokemon, One Piece, um Disney, Locana, there are games galore.

00:52:28.38
Russell Gibson
Yeah, for sure.

00:52:32.34
Adz
And I'm sure different grade games get graded on different quantities.

00:52:36.16
Russell Gibson
No, 100%. Alrighty. So this is a follow-up from last week. We did a conversation about Kobe versus Jordan. We actually had a few replies on this.

00:52:44.91
Adz
Oh, nice.

00:52:45.15
Russell Gibson
Also too, shout out to Card Ladder for resharing our content. We really appreciate that, guys. And thank you for your giving us the premium accounts too.

00:52:49.69
Adz
Awesome. Ongoing support.

00:52:53.63
Russell Gibson
So we need to shout them out for that.

00:52:54.14
Adz
Yeah, for sure.

00:52:55.47
Russell Gibson
Scotty James, Jordan all day over the imitation Jordan. that new card smell, Jordan every day of the week. What I didn't do on this, and I've realized this as soon as I've started to read people's responses, I didn't say factoring in price because for me, it's the kaboom, the Kobe.

00:53:11.67
Adz
Yeah, yeah. Aesthetics. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

00:53:15.42
Russell Gibson
I like the car design, but also I like the price versus the Jordan. Whereas if price is no object, which essentially is, I think what's happening here. And rightly so too, there's nothing wrong with people doing that.

00:53:27.39
Adz
Of course.

00:53:27.83
Russell Gibson
Mal has said, why not both? Ross Taughton has the Jordan hit the ceiling, but then reflective, is there more Kobe's in hiding? So I think what he's trying to say there is that, is there the population going to keep going up a little bit?

00:53:37.27
Adz
Oh yeah. i like that.

00:53:41.39
Russell Gibson
Roscoe's going with the Jordan. ah Do you want to Levi's?

00:53:46.26
Adz
hang on a second. It was Levi.

00:53:47.62
Russell Gibson
That's all right. i'll

00:53:48.70
Adz
Yep. You can go expand my internet.

00:53:50.35
Russell Gibson
Kobe Kaboom for me, my goat, so it would be a PC card that would stay with me forever. Yeah. I think if you're a Kobe guy, it's hard to let that bias go, isn't It's such a beautiful card. Jared Begg, Jordan, PMG are amazing looking cards. And Jared is a ah Jordan collector from way back, so that makes sense.

00:54:08.57
Russell Gibson
Shout out to Paul Stahl. He's gone with the MJ Corey Gilbert wants both. I think the other comment for us to add on this too was in our DM, our group chat with Joe He just noted how much those Kobe's have gone up.

00:54:21.82
Russell Gibson
And I think that is a really, you know it's a really good observation because if you look at the graph on that, we did talk about this last week, but that's just, it's just a straight line up to the moon, isn't it really?

00:54:28.97
Adz
I'm sad.

00:54:33.25
Russell Gibson
Yeah.

00:54:33.56
Adz
Yeah. and And I will note for those that haven't been paying attention that in about four weeks, we are going to celebrate the 20th anniversary of the 81 point game.

00:54:44.22
Russell Gibson
Yeah, right. I still remember that game, to be honest. It's just I'm getting old now.

00:54:48.28
Adz
I watch it every now and then.

00:54:48.73
Russell Gibson
Yeah.

00:54:49.28
Adz
It's a good game. I mean, not if you're a Raptors fan, but.

00:54:54.94
Russell Gibson
All right. This next one is called LeBron is a protected species. I need to run this past you, man. Dylan Brooks presents to the the game the other day wearing a Delonte West Cavs jersey, which I think if you are measuring trash talk, it doesn't get any worse than that really, does it?

00:55:13.43
Russell Gibson
Do we need to run this through the listeners? Allegedly what happened in that space? I think we can.

00:55:21.08
Adz
about About LeBron hitting.

00:55:23.70
Russell Gibson
So Delonte West was a teammate of LeBron James in their Cavs NBA Finals run.

00:55:24.79
Adz
Yeah.

00:55:28.66
Russell Gibson
So they were a really good team.

00:55:28.76
Adz
Yes, yes.

00:55:30.30
Russell Gibson
And Delonte West was in the starting five.

00:55:30.73
Adz
Yeah. Sure.

00:55:33.24
Russell Gibson
ah It later was, think we have to say allegedly reported, that Delonte West um was having relations with LeBron's mum. And so,

00:55:45.94
Adz
It's such a deep cut.

00:55:47.58
Russell Gibson
yeah that was... um

00:55:49.02
Adz
It's such a deep cut. if If there's any player that has got real estate inside that head of LeBron's right now, it's Dylan Brooks.

00:55:57.82
Russell Gibson
LeBron lost his temper at Dylan Brooks in that game and then was pushing the referee. My question, my question to you is why wasn't LeBron suspended for that?

00:56:03.61
Adz
Get through to fight him. Yeah.

00:56:11.22
Adz
Maybe the refs heard something that they forgave LeBron for doing that.

00:56:16.47
Russell Gibson
As in like they're siding with LeBron in this particular like back and forth?

00:56:19.86
Adz
guy You don't talk about a ah a man's mother and on the basketball court, maybe.

00:56:23.67
Russell Gibson
Yeah, Okay.

00:56:24.50
Adz
There's got to be something. there's you got You saw how it worked up. It wasn't about the foul stuff. It wasn't about the close attention. It was really at him. and

00:56:31.83
Russell Gibson
Yeah, yeah. He definitely stepped over whatever line it was.

00:56:34.33
Adz
And yes, I definitely think LeBron probably should have been teed up for that behaviour. But anyway.

00:56:39.18
Russell Gibson
I actually think he should have been suspended. I think if that was Draymond Green, that would have been two-month suspension.

00:56:40.92
Adz
and then and

00:56:44.37
Adz
Agreed. Agreed.

00:56:45.98
Russell Gibson
If that was any other player, I think that would have been at least two games, maybe three.

00:56:50.49
Adz
the question The question then, Mika, but like agreed with the the outcome, but is it LeBron protected or the ref's just like, nah, Dylan Brooks has got it coming? in

00:57:00.11
Russell Gibson
Look, Brooks is an annoying dude.

00:57:01.58
Adz
Yeah.

00:57:01.70
Russell Gibson
Even I find that guy like gets on my nerves and I'm two days of flight away from him.

00:57:04.92
Adz
I remember when he was at Memphis doing it to LeBron. Anyway, yeah, he's done it to LeBron for years.

00:57:08.37
Russell Gibson
Yeah.

00:57:10.16
Adz
So, look, it's nice to have somebody in in the league that is prepared to go up against him and 100%.

00:57:16.47
Russell Gibson
He is an absolute villain, that guy.

00:57:18.87
Adz
ah hundred percent

00:57:20.77
Russell Gibson
We normally do a Jordan to close, but I've just got this one in the run sheet because it's just a good-looking card. 1998 Skybox Premium, Michael Jordan, Intimidation Nation, PSA 9. Population on this is 37, sold for 12,240.

00:57:38.01
Russell Gibson
I like this card because it reminds me a bit of sort of the Court Kings-esque illustrations that you get out of it. I think it's a very classic Jordan pose. I can see this in my in my head, like sort of my memories of Jordan like that. Like it's kind of a cool card.

00:57:53.84
Russell Gibson
i'm I'm going to go.

00:57:54.09
Adz
That's impressive.

00:57:57.18
Adz
twelve thousand dollars that's impressive

00:57:59.26
Russell Gibson
Yeah, I'm going to go. This is like a record. This is just an ongoing statement for me. I just really am struggling with the value on these cards at.

00:58:06.55
Adz
Yeah, yeah. I noticed that I just keep every time I see a Jordan insert, I just like just throw it.

00:58:13.66
Russell Gibson
I just shudder a bit.

00:58:13.80
Adz
How think?

00:58:16.44
Russell Gibson
Like for me, that's like, you can get a lot of cardboard for 12 grand,

00:58:21.16
Adz
But people, all right, so people that collect Jordans don't often sell them off, right? So they become harder and harder and harder and harder and harder to acquire. The more people that get into basketball collecting, the less Jordans there are to get, right? So gradually that demand increases. And if it's unanimous that Jordan's the GOAT, obviously everyone wants to get cards of the GOAT. So the demand is going to keep going up.

00:58:42.14
Russell Gibson
To your point, in the last three years, if I'm counting this properly, it's a smallish picture, just 11 sales on that card.

00:58:48.62
Adz
Yeah. Cause it doesn't cut cards like this don't come up often.

00:58:49.73
Russell Gibson
It's not heaps.

00:58:52.08
Adz
Yeah. Yeah.

00:58:54.71
Russell Gibson
All right, I think we've got time for one more. and it's We're going to do two Steph Currys, and one of them is going to be a card versus card.

00:58:59.99
Adz
Two curries.

00:59:04.98
Russell Gibson
So you do like a card versus card.

00:59:05.05
Adz
Oh, I love it. I love a card versus card curry to close.

00:59:12.50
Russell Gibson
All right, Steph Curry, gold kaboom number to 10, just sold for, oh, there's another one.

00:59:16.73
Adz
Is it gold?

00:59:19.19
Russell Gibson
So there's two there.

00:59:19.68
Adz
Oh.

00:59:21.25
Russell Gibson
BGS 9.5 sold for Population on this is three.

00:59:29.91
Russell Gibson
i actually have got no problems with this at all And the reason I say that very particularly is that um I'm just looking at these two cards that we were just talking about. We're just talking about the Jordan that sold for 650. The Jordan is population 11.

00:59:48.63
Russell Gibson
And then we've got the Kobe that sold for $100,000, which is an unknown population.

00:59:49.99
Adz
Yeah,

00:59:54.20
Russell Gibson
Let's call it 60, but is a pop three on the grading report.

00:59:56.54
Adz
yeah. yeah

00:59:59.67
Russell Gibson
um ah Yeah, and the reason why I say that this is good value also too is that I really, yes, Steph Curry stuff has gone up a lot. I still think he's got a lot of room to move in terms of his hobby potential in terms of that all-time sort of upper echelon.

01:00:18.71
Russell Gibson
And...

01:00:18.90
Adz
Yeah.

01:00:21.54
Russell Gibson
I think these kabooms and these low numbered ones, you know, we had a difference of opinion on this, like a few episodes back where i was sort of comparing these to PMGs and you were sort of saying, well, it's probably the the one of ones, which is a better comp, but yeah, I'm, I can, I just when the dust settles, man.

01:00:37.05
Adz
Yeah, I think they scale to ah to to to a degree. i don't know. i'm I'm stuck on this one.

01:00:42.31
Russell Gibson
Yeah. That's fine. I want to hear your opinion.

01:00:43.06
Adz
im i'm

01:00:43.95
Russell Gibson
So yeah.

01:00:44.21
Adz
I'm stuck on this but on this gold one.

01:00:44.43
Russell Gibson
what Where are you at? Yeah.

01:00:46.65
Adz
I think with Steph Curry, and i'm just um now um being really picky, um i think I think this image isn't worth the price tag.

01:00:50.71
Russell Gibson
No, no, be picky. This is fun. Yeah.

01:00:59.53
Adz
It's not Steph doing what Steph does.

01:01:01.53
Russell Gibson
As in the illustration is not.

01:01:02.81
Adz
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Because we did that could the Kobe could be in the Jordan-Coby comparison. Like, that's a good-looking Kobe shot, right?

01:01:11.30
Russell Gibson
Yeah, that's a classic Kobe throw down.

01:01:11.93
Adz
That's the... the

01:01:16.22
Adz
Yeah, like, but but Steph Curry, what, going up for a layup? What's this? Like, is he dunking? Because he doesn't dunk. Like, what what is this image saying? He's not shooting a three.

01:01:26.94
Adz
He's not doing his night-night. He's not cooking. He's not...

01:01:29.25
Russell Gibson
Yeah.

01:01:29.64
Adz
cooking he's not

01:01:30.58
Russell Gibson
Yeah, yeah

01:01:33.37
Adz
And I did look at the other links, so that's obviously what's inspired this. But I'm like, i of of the three curries I've seen in the last few minutes, this is the least this is the one I'm least impressed by.

01:01:40.91
Russell Gibson
yeah, yeah. Yeah.

01:01:45.40
Adz
So this is I think it's overpriced. um I do agree about Kabooms and the gold ones being valuable.

01:01:47.94
Russell Gibson
OK. OK.

01:01:52.11
Adz
Don't get me wrong. But I i do think the... um

01:01:55.26
Russell Gibson
All right. So no, that's fine.

01:01:55.74
Adz
The image work on this kaboom, if you've got, and the PMGs, there weren't six different Jordan PMGs. This is the other part about the PMG comp. Because there's multiple kabooms, we need to be that little bit, that there is the differentiation there somewhere.

01:02:07.10
Russell Gibson
Yeah.

01:02:11.65
Russell Gibson
Yeah.

01:02:12.63
Adz
But yeah, so for me, i'm not I'm not sold on the artwork for this one.

01:02:16.92
Russell Gibson
So if you say this is overvalued, what do you think this is worth in 10 years time, in 20 years time? Like to sort of look into the future a little bit, you know, what do you see?

01:02:24.38
Adz
future i i would have bet it as 100 to 150 in years time yeah but that's yeah thrash it out yeah for sure

01:02:25.10
Russell Gibson
Yeah.

01:02:27.67
Russell Gibson
Okay. Yeah. Okay. No, that's, that's, I'm so biased on these though, man. i actually need to talk to people with different opinions on it. So I feel like my head is, I'm so like tunneled on these now.

01:02:40.77
Russell Gibson
So I'm probably not the right person to talk to about it anymore.

01:02:41.61
Adz
we'll go to the we we can go to the card versus card because i could follow on from that yeah cool like

01:02:45.58
Russell Gibson
Let's do that. Let's do that. Yep. All right. So we've got two cards here for the card, gross of card. We got the Steph Curry Night Night Kaboom, which is the 2022 PSA 10.

01:02:55.63
Adz
Yep.

01:02:55.70
Russell Gibson
That's all for $29,000. And then we've got the 2024 Steph Curry Mango, which is obviously these have just gone absolutely crazy.

01:02:57.49
Adz
Yep.

01:03:05.46
Russell Gibson
Again, PSA 10 that sold for $35,000.

01:03:09.50
Adz
All right, so I'm going to say that I'm going to say the night night is going 10x over the next 10 years.

01:03:10.10
Russell Gibson
What do you, what do you got on this one?

01:03:18.84
Russell Gibson
Yeah, right.

01:03:19.29
Adz
And the chef curry has a cap of about a hundred k

01:03:24.69
Adz
That's my thought. So I've gone for the the night night Steph Curry, iconic night night.

01:03:30.90
Russell Gibson
All right. My opinion on this is I actually think mangas at the moment are like you're buying into the hype.

01:03:38.42
Adz
ah hundred percent

01:03:38.49
Russell Gibson
so So for me, like any mangas, if I ever do hit one, I'm just going to sell it straight away. That's my gut feeling about those. I'm like, you know,

01:03:46.56
Adz
100%.

01:03:48.06
Adz
they hope They were one and done though. That was the last thing released by Prism. So yeah they can't do it again.

01:03:51.86
Russell Gibson
Yeah, i just i just think

01:03:54.26
Adz
Scarcity.

01:03:55.22
Russell Gibson
I just think the hype on these is a little bit like crooked.

01:03:58.04
Adz
Agree.

01:03:58.78
Russell Gibson
So on on the Kaboom one, I'm not sure we see a 10X on the, let's call this one the base, but like the gold, if there's a green on that one, I'm pretty sure.

01:04:06.58
Adz
Yeah.

01:04:11.20
Russell Gibson
Did they have one of ones in 2022?

01:04:11.60
Adz
Is there 2022? don't know. Yeah. ah don't know

01:04:14.24
Russell Gibson
I'm actually not if they don't know, but let's just say we do. I reckon they're the ones that go for like nuts money into the future, man.

01:04:20.44
Adz
yeah

01:04:21.59
Russell Gibson
I think that one will go up, but I think that will be like sort of an incremental each year. You know, you might make your 5%, your 6%, your 7%, something like that, but I don't reckon.

01:04:26.68
Adz
Sure, yeah,

01:04:29.97
Russell Gibson
Yeah.

01:04:31.22
Adz
Interesting.

01:04:33.14
Russell Gibson
Final thoughts before we go home, man.

01:04:35.45
Adz
um I think we need to give some serious consideration to what frameworks are and are not in place in the hobby right now.

01:04:47.00
Adz
And I think there's some noise being made and I don't think the noise is gonna stop.

01:04:47.09
Russell Gibson
Hmm.

01:04:51.48
Adz
um We started a few months ago when Wondershine entered the stage. And the talking about it being art and collectibles. And I think they the more big guns, that are the the the more big investors there are in this hobby, the more oversight it's going to require.

01:05:08.60
Adz
And it's not just at the top level. It needs a framework. People are going to invest lots of money into it.

01:05:15.54
Russell Gibson
I think we should send Pat Ryan a regulate the hobby t-shirt.

01:05:19.94
Adz
on the show, course. hundred percent if he comes on the show course

01:05:24.09
Russell Gibson
I think even if he doesn't come on the show, we just him one.

01:05:26.16
Adz
It's fine. Yeah, that's it. and Get his postal address. We'll do it. and a war And one of Ross's water pistols.

01:05:32.64
Russell Gibson
I'm sure getting a congressman's postal address will be easy.

01:05:35.42
Adz
Actually, you probably shouldn't send a US Senator a gun. All right, never mind.

01:05:38.84
Russell Gibson
Actually, that is a terrible idea.

01:05:39.99
Adz
right ah Not doing that. Ross, please don't send a US Senator a gun. Done.

01:05:47.37
Russell Gibson
That could be misinterpreted.

01:05:48.70
Adz
It might. Can send him a Lububu card though. That was cool.

01:05:53.62
Russell Gibson
Thank you, Adam. Thanks, everyone, for listening. Thanks for letting me flesh all that through my head today because I feel like there was a lot of that stuff I just wanted to sort of get through today.

01:06:00.62
Adz
No, it was good.

01:06:01.40
Russell Gibson
so

01:06:02.22
Adz
Thanks to listeners. Thanks, Russell, for another great episode.

01:06:04.34
Russell Gibson
Thank you, man.

01:06:04.38
Adz
And because we won't speak to them until after the big day, happy holidays.

01:06:09.59
Russell Gibson
Oh, Merry Christmas.

01:06:09.93
Adz
Merry Christmas. Enjoy the 25th of September and all that comes with it.

01:06:11.19
Russell Gibson
Yeah, of course. Of course. Yep.

01:06:16.33
Adz
Be safe.

01:06:16.45
Russell Gibson
Yep.

01:06:17.25
Adz
Be festive.

01:06:18.45
Russell Gibson
Yep.

01:06:18.62
Adz
not as festive as this Not as festive as PSA.

01:06:18.69
Russell Gibson
Be festive

01:06:21.84
Adz
Have we got to the overs yet?

01:06:22.10
Russell Gibson
as collectors. Yep.

01:06:23.70
Adz
Be a festive bunch of collectors in the hobby and and enjoy all the festivities that this time of year brings.

01:06:26.17
Russell Gibson
Yep.

01:06:28.50
Russell Gibson
Yep.

01:06:30.84
Adz
And we'll see you next week.

01:06:32.15
Russell Gibson
Merry Christmas, guys.

01:06:35.93
Adz
And we're out.