Episode 253: PSA Monopoly Concerns, a Senator’s Letter & Gemrate opinion

This episode focuses on growing scrutiny around PSA and its position within the hobby, sparked by a letter written by a US Senator raising concerns about market dominance and monopoly behaviour. The discussion centres on what that letter actually says, why it matters, and whether hobby participants should be paying closer attention.

The conversation then shifts to a voicemail sent in by Ryan from GemRate. This is not a listener question, but a direct response addressing grading data, market interpretation, and how GemRate views current grading trends. The hosts unpack what was said, why it was sent, and what it adds to the broader grading debate.

The episode also touches on Topps buyback programs and how incentives, grading behaviour, and market reactions are increasingly interconnected. Throughout, the discussion stays grounded in how these developments impact collectors right now, rather than speculation about future outcomes.

Transcript

00:00:00.00
Adz
like button and make us go live.

00:00:07.03
Russell Gibson
Tell me when you're ready. I'm ready, mate.

00:00:16.17
Adz
There we go, setting live updates, blah, blah, blah, blah configuration, optimising settings, it's doing all the stuff. And tada Sounded really weird. Yes, we're we're live.

00:00:44.76
Adz
Welcome, everybody, to episode 253 of the You Can't Comp, this NBA trading card podcast, where you host Adam, Amy, and Russell Gibson,

00:00:59.10
Russell Gibson
Hey, hey.

00:01:00.92
Adz
I don't know what to say For those that are watching live, yes, it's before Christmas. For those listening, it's well and truly after Christmas. um

00:01:08.38
Russell Gibson
Yeah.

00:01:09.51
Adz
Russell and I are just taking a little bit of time as everybody else is over this lovely holiday period. So, yeah, we figured we'd record back-to-back episodes and release them week apart so people people's Sunday evening routines or Monday morning routines weren't disrupted.

00:01:18.84
Russell Gibson
That's it.

00:01:25.51
Adz
Is that a good way to explain it?

00:01:25.94
Russell Gibson
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. That's right.

00:01:28.25
Adz
other' I don't know.

00:01:29.13
Russell Gibson
It makes sense.

00:01:30.11
Adz
Yeah. So if anything happened in and around Christmas, we're probably not covering it today.

00:01:37.27
Russell Gibson
We can say to people, Merry Christmas, though.

00:01:39.19
Adz
We can. we We hope you had a fantastic Christmas if you're listening after the fact. um Hopefully your team won on Christmas Day or Boxing Day in Australia. um yeah i Yeah, I'll either be happy or sad.

00:01:52.22
Russell Gibson
Hopefully, future Adam didn't have too many beers on Boxing Day.

00:01:55.31
Adz
Oh, there'll be lots of beers on Boxing Day, I'm sure.

00:01:56.89
Russell Gibson
You better tell tell everyone what your your plan is.

00:01:58.36
Adz
I'm just gonna watch all of the basketball I possibly can is is the plan.

00:01:59.29
Russell Gibson
It's kind of epic. Yeah.

00:02:04.90
Adz
that's that That's it in a summary. That's, yeah, it's it's a lot of basketball.

00:02:07.22
Russell Gibson
I'm very jealous of your plan, by the way.

00:02:10.61
Adz
Boxing Day basketball is the best. um And there's a bit of cricket in that, but irrelevant.

00:02:12.33
Russell Gibson
Yeah.

00:02:15.67
Adz
ah Look, to before we we jump into the show, i'm I'm gonna make it a habit of shouting out to our listeners and saying thank you guys a for tuning in.

00:02:25.82
Russell Gibson
Yeah.

00:02:26.49
Adz
And if you feel like our content is worthwhile, ah you're enjoying it and would like to to support the show, you can head out over to any of the your podcast platforms.

00:02:38.63
Adz
In the show notes, there's actually a link in the episode description that says support the show. And if you click that, you can make a a simple one-off or ongoing contribution.

00:02:50.22
Adz
It's kind of like just buy us a coffee, say thank you for the...

00:02:52.81
Russell Gibson
Or buy us a basketball card.

00:02:54.49
Adz
buy kaboom if you feel like it, if you're so inclined. um

00:02:59.38
Russell Gibson
That's all right.

00:03:00.73
Adz
Not that that's an expectation. Obviously, if funds are tight and you don't want to go and buy Russell and I a Kobe Bryant kaboom, you can also help the show by by doing some really simple stuff.

00:03:11.86
Adz
ah you can You can go out to our socials. It can be YouTube. It can be Facebook, Instagram, TikTok. If I left anything out, I don't think so. But our tag for all the socials is you can't comp this. So it's really, really simple.

00:03:26.55
Adz
Like, subscribe, share some of our content, ah show you appreciate the content that we're putting out there. And yeah, look, keep listening. We really appreciate it. And we're looking forward to

00:03:37.53
Russell Gibson
And I do notice when you guys click and comment and stuff like that, I'm a bit of an analytics aficionado.

00:03:42.33
Adz
Yeah.

00:03:43.32
Russell Gibson
So yeah, I definitely do notice.

00:03:44.28
Adz
And we do, we we personally try to respond to everything that we see in the socials.

00:03:45.04
Russell Gibson
Yeah.

00:03:49.24
Adz
So yeah, we do appreciate the support and thank you for for an amazing few years and we're looking forward to doing many, many more episodes. All right, now we can get into to what's happening.

00:03:59.67
Russell Gibson
This week's This week's programming, we've got your letter from the f t or to the FTC. We're going to retouch on that Wilt Chamberlain card. We've got a voicemail from Ryan at Gemrate.

00:04:12.23
Russell Gibson
We've got a Jeff Wilson wilson special for you. We've got a molten metal Michael Jordan. We're going to talk about a Charles Barkley card, Jalen Johnson, Topps buyback, Fanatics distribution. And just we're going to talk about some breakout players from this year round out today's show. So I think without any further ado...

00:04:30.84
Russell Gibson
I know you're chomping at the bit to talk about this lovely letter from Patrick K. Ryan.

00:04:38.65
Adz
Yes, Congressman Patrick ah K. Ryan did write a letter to the Federal Trade Commission in relation to the, I suppose, an investigation into into collectors holdings and the way they've been aggressively acquiring their competition.

00:04:59.11
Russell Gibson
Aggressively, yes.

00:04:59.83
Adz
Yes, that that would be the acquisition, recent acquisition, obviously, of Beckett, but also touched on the acquisition of SGC. um I'm not going to read the whole article. we can we can pop a link to it in the show notes. It's a three-page document, ah but I think the the most important part of this, and I was talking to Russell about it off-air, is the...

00:05:25.21
Adz
The way they've explained the hobby, and I think it's a really succinct way um to explain why regulation is so important and why this ah this lack of oversight and and the concerns raised in this letter.

00:05:37.78
Adz
So just to quote the second paragraph, the collectibles industry has evolved from a niche hobby into a sophisticated asset class where the financial value of an item is inextricably tied to its grade or certified condition.

00:05:53.14
Adz
Third-party grading services are third party grading serves as the essential market infrastructure for this industry, providing the objective or authentication and preservation that enables liquidity and price discovery.

00:06:09.37
Russell Gibson
Yeah, some big words in there, man.

00:06:09.69
Adz
caught it's It's a lot.

00:06:10.81
Russell Gibson
Yeah.

00:06:11.96
Adz
um Because a single grade point can represent difference of tens of thousands of dollars in value, the integrity and independence of the grading process are paramount. collector's strategy of consolidation and integration has given it the power to manipulate the value of underlying assets, dictate terms to thousands of small businesses and control the standards of an entire financial ecosystem.

00:06:38.20
Adz
Now that's a really, really well put way of constant tirades about the the need for regulation in the hobby and the concerns around the control someone like PSA has, because if they're the sole regulator of the condition of cards, they control what our assets are worth.

00:07:02.81
Adz
And it's not just a hobby anymore. With Wondershine in the picture, with it doesn't matter who it is, these grading companies at the end of the day control what that slabbed bit of cardboard is worth.

00:07:05.61
Russell Gibson
So

00:07:17.27
Russell Gibson
yeah, they contribute to the market sentiment, a hundred percent and

00:07:21.14
Adz
Well, they can they contribute over 80% of the market of this of the independent grading side of things. That's the concern.

00:07:30.19
Russell Gibson
Oh, yeah. What I mean by that is like it used to be BGS that dictated the market and then PSA has been the game winner of the last you know five years or so.

00:07:35.96
Adz
Yeah.

00:07:38.78
Adz
Yeah. um they they do They break down the percentage of the market share and everything, and it gradually, they said, with the acquisition of SGC and then following the acquisition of Beckett, they now control over 80% of the market with CGC, the only one with any real scale, and that's below 20 17%.

00:07:40.82
Russell Gibson
i think...

00:07:58.37
Adz
So it's... Yeah, yeah. so

00:08:01.72
Russell Gibson
yeah there's

00:08:02.05
Adz
it's

00:08:02.65
Russell Gibson
The numbers they cited there, I actually wonder what they mean by that, because is that what's been graded in the last couple of years?

00:08:02.90
Adz
yeah

00:08:09.62
Russell Gibson
Or is this what's in total that's out there across all of the different you know sports and TCG and all the rest of it? Because I'd actually like to clarify that fact with Ryan, because I think that would be

00:08:23.17
Adz
Yeah. I mean, I'm not going to argue with the fact that I think PSAs, all every everything that's under collector's umbrella, collector holdings. So you know what I So it's Beckett, it's SGC and it's PSA make up for over 80%.

00:08:38.96
Russell Gibson
Sure. Yeah. sure

00:08:41.56
Adz
So, yeah and you see those grading reports every month, that like those companies do represent well over 80% of the cards graded. ah And the only other blip on that is, I mean, we saw Tag into the field with Bugger All last month, but you also, and CGC is the only other one.

00:08:54.49
Russell Gibson
yeah

00:08:57.55
Adz
So if over 80% of the cards graded are done by this one power, you can see how how concerning that level of control is. And I'm not going to go into to the the next page where they go on to about why it's that 80% is so harmful. There's a bunch of really key points on the final page. I think it's summarized quite well.

00:09:18.90
Russell Gibson
Can I just jump in for a second?

00:09:19.74
Adz
You can jump in. Yeah.

00:09:20.78
Russell Gibson
Yeah. So I think what I was talking to you off air is like who wrote this article and and who contributed to it? Because unless this guy is a diehard card collector and also a politician at the same time, or I should say congressman, shouldn't I really?

00:09:36.77
Adz
hmm.

00:09:38.55
Russell Gibson
I suspect that someone has either someone who has a very close working relationship with, or someone has gotten to his ear and, you know, laid out the workings and the the machinations of the hobby.

00:09:49.57
Russell Gibson
Cause I, I feel like this is a very well-written letter. um And you, I think also probably correctly pointed out too, that there would be a ghost writer or someone who's writing this letter.

00:09:58.17
Adz
Of course. Yeah, 100%.

00:09:59.30
Russell Gibson
So there'll be a sort of a small team that ah would have put this together.

00:09:59.64
Adz
think...

00:10:02.10
Russell Gibson
But I, There's no references to this letter. I was nearly calling it an article because that's almost what it reads like. But there's no references to this letter. So I would like to know where they got their data from. And I would like to know who assisted the writing on this.

00:10:18.42
Adz
yeah one hundred percent i think

00:10:18.39
Russell Gibson
Because whoever did this has got their own motivations for putting this information forward and putting it public, right?

00:10:24.89
Adz
Well, and and i'll I'll continue to use this whole asset class concept that now that we've got the wondershines of the world jumping in, it doesn't have to be tens of million dollars of conglomerates that ah that are putting together like multi-million dollar collections. There could be very wealthy people that are looking to invest hundreds of thousands of dollars and know a local congressman.

00:10:49.82
Adz
Like they, people that are investing in this as an asset class may have made discoveries and gone, I've got concerns about the integrity of the asset that I'm buying.

00:10:59.74
Russell Gibson
So do you think that, so do you think there's some people who out there who have got high value BGS cards and now they're worried about them?

00:10:59.83
Adz
Because you've got it, you've got investors now. This is the thing. Yeah, Maybe. Or just that hearing about the acquisitions.

00:11:09.98
Russell Gibson
Because.

00:11:12.60
Adz
Obviously people, well, i so I say obviously. For me, if if I'm investing into something, i want to I want to do some research on it. So if I'm buying something and I'm like, wow, that's that's amazing.

00:11:23.60
Adz
It's gone up 700% in three years. This is crazy. I'm going to get involved.

00:11:26.97
Russell Gibson
Hmm.

00:11:28.95
Adz
And then they start doing research and they go, okay, so what is this tied to? Where does the value come from? And they go, it's literally connected to the grade. because the population of those grades, ah and then someone goes, oh, but wasn't there a thing about the card being degraded or upgraded or regraded? What's happening with that? Dig, dig, dig, dig, dig.

00:11:48.09
Adz
And I'm talking like savvy business people that are analyzing this relatively new asset class, we'll say, because it was a hobby.

00:11:59.63
Adz
Regardless of the high value, it was it was considered a hobby. Now it's considered an asset. So you've got people that are... that specifically invest in assets not connected to their sports team not buying it because of history or anything like that literally trying to put an investment ah go is that a good investment and now they want to know how it's regulated and they're discovering it's actually not regulated all that well rich powerful people no senators no congressmen

00:12:19.13
Russell Gibson
yeah

00:12:31.45
Adz
I feel like this is where the the noise came from. Obviously, there are going to be experts in the field that have assisted, i think. um I'm sure no one's going put their name to it and say that they helped the congressman.

00:12:43.83
Adz
But yeah, you're right. Someone's probably made enough noise to to warrant this level of attention. I thought it was going to take longer, but clearly it hasn't.

00:12:51.51
Russell Gibson
Yeah. Do you want to read through the next paragraph about the SGC stuff? Because I think that's actually quite relevant. And then there's something I wanted to talk about in the following paragraph after that.

00:13:01.66
Adz
Okay, so so is this the um just the next bit where it says um the collectors that...

00:13:05.78
Russell Gibson
The SGC acquisition serves as a cautionary tale for the pending Beckett transaction.

00:13:10.94
Adz
Where are we? Oh, the literal next bit. Where are we? that So in less than five years, collectors, they've systematically eliminated competitors through serial acquisitions,

00:13:24.15
Adz
um The company acquired SGC in February 2024 and now has announced the acquisition of Beckett in December 2025. This pattern has resulted in so um in a staggering concentration of power, indication that PSA holds 72 market share, SGC holds 8% and Beckett holds 3%, which cumulle it cumulatively, collectively represents 83% of the total market volume.

00:13:51.67
Adz
The SGC acquisition serves as a calc cautionary tale for the pending Beckett transaction. Despite the initial assurances of independence, SGC's leadership departed shortly after the merger.

00:14:06.14
Adz
Resources were diverted to PSA and SGC's grading volume plummeted by 61% in just two months.

00:14:13.82
Russell Gibson
So we definitely briefly touched on that in the last episode.

00:14:17.66
Adz
Saying that they declined, yeah.

00:14:20.31
Russell Gibson
And I think without spoiling what is going to come later on in the show, we've got Ryan from GemRate. He's going to send us a voicemail. He's also touched on this. So i think this seems to be like, are we almost getting like agreement here?

00:14:35.13
Russell Gibson
This is like where it's headed to, but.

00:14:37.07
Adz
It's a pattern. They're they're saying that they would get the, well, the next line is collectors is now offering the identical and identical assurances regarding Beckett following the predictable pattern of acquiring arrival, promising independence and so subsequently dismantling the competitive constraint.

00:14:48.29
Russell Gibson
Hmm.

00:14:55.46
Russell Gibson
That's right. yeah

00:14:56.41
Adz
So they're actually, yeah we promise this is gonna be an independent guys. It's all gonna be fair and even. And then within three months, gone.

00:15:05.62
Adz
That's after being, yeah, yeah.

00:15:11.61
Russell Gibson
So the thing that i just want to run past you through really quickly, collector's dominance is compounded by its vertical integration.

00:15:15.00
Adz
Hmm.

00:15:18.25
Russell Gibson
Now, we literally, we read that full tweet out two episodes ago, and I'm actually trying to follow that as I'm chatting to you at the moment.

00:15:24.45
Adz
Hmm.

00:15:27.77
Adz
It controls grading capacity, pricing analytics through card ladder and participates in buying and selling of graded cards, creating severe conflicts of interest.

00:15:39.74
Russell Gibson
This is not really a conspiracy, but

00:15:41.89
Adz
It's flat facts.

00:15:43.61
Russell Gibson
No, but like for someone to be...

00:15:44.97
Adz
it's not like it's it's but It's the writings on the wall though. They're like, no, no, no This is not good business practice.

00:15:54.65
Russell Gibson
Yeah.

00:15:55.10
Adz
This is a congressman going, this is a conflict of interest. You shouldn't be selling the cards you grade.

00:16:02.26
Russell Gibson
PSA purchased PSA 9 graded cards and regraded them at 10 for resale at a significant financial gain.

00:16:08.34
Adz
Yep.

00:16:08.82
Russell Gibson
This touches on so much, doesn't it?

00:16:10.84
Adz
It touches on the whole lot. And...

00:16:13.25
Russell Gibson
PSA characterised the incident was isolated illustrates the structural dangers of allowing a dominant grader to identify, acquire, and reintroduce high-value inventory before normal price discovery.

00:16:25.53
Adz
manipulat It's market manipulation.

00:16:31.32
Adz
By controlling nearly all large-scale grading platforms, collectors effectively dictates the employment term the employment terms for professional graders. This dominance suppresses labor mobility and makes it virtually impossible for new independent competitors to attain the specialized talent required to enter the market, thereby raising an insurmountable barrier to entry.

00:16:56.44
Adz
So that's, and this, and then it comes under the the request of the FTC, basically saying that it's a violation of section seven of the Clayton Act. I don't know what the the American acts are, so, but yeah. The 2023 merger guidelines reconciled that a firm may violate the antitrust, may violate the antitrust laws through a series of acquisitions that cumulative cumulatively harm competition, even if no single transaction independently triggers the liability.

00:17:26.39
Adz
Yeah. So they're they're saying it's a pattern and it's and it's going to, yeah.

00:17:34.73
Adz
They're in there're in a breach.

00:17:36.70
Russell Gibson
Interesting. All right. Final thoughts on this ad?

00:17:39.83
Adz
Final thoughts, i would give anyone that's interested in what the hell's going on and what they're what the noise is about, um we'll put the link in the in the show notes. You don't have to read the whole document. There's like a ah ah top 10 points kind of thing.

00:17:52.09
Adz
They talk about monopolization, acquisition patterns, evasing evading regulations, the erosion of competition, pricing, and um the market manipulation stuff.

00:18:03.61
Adz
So...

00:18:03.99
Russell Gibson
Yeah.

00:18:04.25
Adz
very interesting read um it's not it's not sort of faff it's all seems to be based um on on evidence to hand so and this is all public knowledge about the acquisition and stuff so

00:18:04.59
Russell Gibson
Yep.

00:18:20.66
Russell Gibson
I mean, it makes it very

00:18:24.63
Russell Gibson
um

00:18:24.94
Adz
puts it black and white for me and and for once i think yeah

00:18:27.80
Russell Gibson
makes it very transparent about all the naughty stuff that PSA has sort of been up to, doesn't it really?

00:18:29.46
Adz
yeah Yeah, and even if they're not actively doing it, it's the fact that they've got the capability, they've got the opportunity to do it because of the position they hold.

00:18:40.95
Adz
And that's the that's the whole concern, right, is if you've got that monopoly, you control everything and no one else can break in to the market. So, look, I think it's nice.

00:18:49.72
Russell Gibson
Yep.

00:18:51.13
Adz
It's black and white. It's shining a light on the need for regulation in the hobby. And, yeah, watch this space, I guess. Exciting times.

00:19:02.17
Russell Gibson
Thank you to the bang man. This ad is brought to you by the bang man ripping and NBA cases.

00:19:10.08
Russell Gibson
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00:19:26.14
Russell Gibson
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00:20:00.74
Russell Gibson
Alrighty, we are back. How are you doing, Ad?

00:20:03.80
Adz
madam Back with a vengeance.

00:20:06.26
Russell Gibson
With a vengeance.

00:20:07.18
Adz
We're good. We're ready for part two of the show. so

00:20:11.19
Russell Gibson
Part two is our Wilt Chamberlain conversation, part two

00:20:15.99
Adz
What's part two of the show and part two of the Wilt Chamberlain check-in?

00:20:19.09
Russell Gibson
That is insane.

00:20:22.25
Adz
Inception almost.

00:20:24.34
Russell Gibson
Festive, you might say.

00:20:25.73
Adz
Ha!

00:20:29.07
Russell Gibson
All right. We wanted to do some further digging on this. You went and did some homework today. Tell us what did you find?

00:20:35.42
Adz
I did more homework today than I think I've done all year. um

00:20:39.54
Russell Gibson
I'm proud of you, mate.

00:20:41.02
Adz
Thank you. the The FTC stuff was a lot of fun.

00:20:41.78
Russell Gibson
Yeah.

00:20:44.78
Adz
the ah the The Wilt stuff, I'm like, oh, maybe I just got a bit carried away.

00:20:45.08
Russell Gibson
Yeah.

00:20:48.74
Adz
So it wasn't a one of one with PSA. It was just because it was an SGC 10 and they crossed it over. Now the SGC 10 doesn't appear on any of the things.

00:20:59.09
Russell Gibson
Yeah. Yeah.

00:20:59.58
Adz
So there are four of the will in existence. Sorry, there were four. So that was one of the four. So the one that was downgraded is the one that was crossed. ah That's what I wasn't sure about. I just, when I found out it wasn't a one of one, I got a bit down on myself.

00:21:16.82
Russell Gibson
Yeah, I think we were a bit confused because our recollection was we were discussing it as a one-of-one, but I actually went back and read the the transcript notes from our episode.

00:21:24.12
Adz
It is four. Yeah.

00:21:27.77
Russell Gibson
Because remember the timeline? The timeline was it was graded as an SGC. We talked about it on the pod. Yeah.

00:21:33.72
Adz
Yeah, yeah. And then it came back as a...

00:21:34.68
Russell Gibson
And then it was sold and then it was crossed over to PSA.

00:21:35.67
Adz
Yeah.

00:21:37.72
Russell Gibson
So i think that's why in our heads we were thinking it was like a one of one when in fact the pop on it is four.

00:21:42.55
Adz
Yeah.

00:21:44.55
Russell Gibson
So yeah, that's good that we somewhat had our ducks in a row on that.

00:21:45.72
Adz
Yeah.

00:21:50.43
Russell Gibson
But all right, so let's let's talk about this. So where are we at with with this in terms of value? What else do you want to talk about?

00:21:57.34
Adz
um I just... It still doesn't make any sense to me. Like, I i don't... i think i just I think we should have just corrected that it's not a one-of-one. It was genuinely. There's no conspiracy with PSA making up four cards. We've now got the clarity.

00:22:10.78
Adz
There isn't any history.

00:22:11.37
Russell Gibson
Oh, right. That's what you're a bit worried about.

00:22:13.34
Adz
But there's the whole fact that it sold for 1.7. The card sold for 1.7 million,

00:22:22.58
Adz
and that was the SGC 10. That has become a PSA 10 and is now a PSA 9. So it's really confusing. I still don't understand what sparked this review and why someone that has a PSA 10 would want it reviewed and downgraded.

00:22:40.50
Russell Gibson
No, I think that's two separate events because, well, what was said to us from TJ is online. He said that he said this to me in DM is that the card was graded at least 20 years ago.

00:22:56.12
Adz
So it's not the one from SGC, it's one of the other ones.

00:22:58.82
Russell Gibson
It's a different one.

00:22:59.99
Adz
Okay, there we go.

00:23:01.05
Russell Gibson
Yeah. So just, just to clarify that, know,

00:23:03.32
Adz
cool So it wasn't the SGC 10 that was turned into a PSA 10 and then turned into a nine. It was a longstanding 10 that has now been reviewed for whatever reason because it's an old label.

00:23:17.69
Adz
Like, is the... ah I'd still like to know why the...

00:23:21.37
Russell Gibson
Okay, so what I said to a TJ online was, from what I can gather, the card was graded several years ago. He replied to me, yes, about 25 years ago.

00:23:30.97
Adz
Okay, so why would I want...

00:23:31.90
Russell Gibson
so the

00:23:33.65
Adz
Is he trying to get a PSA 11? Why would you do that? Is it insurance purposes?

00:23:39.77
Russell Gibson
And I asked him, did it... It needed to be re-encapsulated. I thought maybe the slab was damaged, was sent to PSA.

00:23:45.55
Adz
Okay, okay, yeah.

00:23:46.52
Russell Gibson
No, it wasn't needed to be. It was re-holded for the August 25 auction at Heritage. Then I said, did PSA automatically review the card when they re-encapsulate it No.

00:24:00.18
Russell Gibson
Sometimes they inspect cards again. If the slab is cracked, that wasn't the situation this time. The current owner asked for the card to be reviewed.

00:24:09.08
Adz
Something's up.

00:24:12.44
Adz
Something's up.

00:24:13.40
Russell Gibson
I mean, if you but if you but if you look at your card in a slab and you're like, this doesn't, like it's clearly off left to right, which I think that was what the issue with this card was.

00:24:13.50
Adz
Anyway, well, i'm sure something will come to light. it's just bizarre.

00:24:24.09
Adz
Okay.

00:24:24.89
Russell Gibson
And you are trying to sell it and you're trying to be you know transparent about it. You don't want any issues coming back.

00:24:30.39
Adz
Yeah, okay. Yeah, okay.

00:24:31.75
Russell Gibson
Would you do that to make sure that there's no faff later on? So instead of selling a card that says 10, but you're a bit worried it might come back at nine,

00:24:43.10
Adz
Yeah. Okay. I can see that. I can see that. I just,

00:24:45.94
Russell Gibson
Like maybe this dude is actually like an honest guy in the hobby and he's trying to do the right thing.

00:24:50.84
Adz
I guess that's the problem is we've hit heard so much of the other stuff.

00:24:53.68
Russell Gibson
we're so so We're so skeptical. and I think we're sometimes we're in such a negative space around like where we are at the moment. All right.

00:25:01.60
Adz
Agreed. Okay.

00:25:02.14
Russell Gibson
why don't we Why don't we actually try and spin this into a like and until positive? Okay, so maybe this dude is just trying to do the right thing by the next person at the Heritage Auction.

00:25:11.27
Adz
Okay.

00:25:12.50
Russell Gibson
How lovely is that?

00:25:12.73
Adz
I'm down with that. look That's great.

00:25:13.98
Russell Gibson
how good How good is the world we live in, at

00:25:17.05
Adz
It's good. It's great.

00:25:18.23
Russell Gibson
So lovely. All right. Let's listen to Ryan from Gem Raid's voicemail.

00:25:25.11
Adz
Yes.

00:25:26.07
Russell Gibson
And this is to follow on from

00:25:33.45
Russell Gibson
basically the PSA acquis acquisition. So we're going back to the first second of the show, but that's fine.

00:25:38.73
Adz
Yeah, that's fine. and we can

00:25:42.46
Adz
It's

00:27:58.23
Adz
I hope that's a good one.

00:29:06.01
Russell Gibson
Alrighty. I'll, I've got heaps of notes to run through, but I'll let you have the first.

00:29:11.71
Adz
i'm I'm going to remain relatively equal footed on it. I know my reaction last episode was very

00:29:22.55
Adz
concerned about about what they were going to do and all the manipulation and things. I think Ryan summed it up really well. um

00:29:30.17
Russell Gibson
As always.

00:29:30.46
Adz
ah They have an opportunity. um they like They do. PSAL collectors have an an opportunity to rebuild Beckett in a way Beckett haven't been able to.

00:29:41.42
Adz
They can put some money behind it.

00:29:41.80
Russell Gibson
Yeah.

00:29:42.66
Adz
They can put some resources behind it and they can bring it bring it back to some level of respectability.

00:29:44.85
Russell Gibson
Yeah.

00:29:50.97
Adz
And you know what? After the first segment of the show, maybe they've got some incentive to do so. because if they go and repeat what they've done with SGC, then there might be a huge antitrust thing coming through from Congress.

00:30:03.92
Adz
So yeah, it was great to hear from Ryan. um It's been too long. So yeah, but maybe, yeah, be it's fantastic to hear from him.

00:30:11.30
Russell Gibson
It's been far too long.

00:30:13.53
Adz
um Keep up the amazing work there in the background as always.

00:30:19.35
Russell Gibson
Yeah. So, all right. So some of the notes I had is that skeptical after the SGC acquisition, I think that was also said in the letter from the Congressman. And I probably think the more that my mind is sort of working my way through this, I'm more on the skeptic side because I personally think Ryan is in that group of optimists for BGS.

00:30:34.16
Adz
Yeah, 100%.

00:30:39.41
Russell Gibson
Yeah. And I'm probably at that point now where I actually, I have no vested interest in BGS and I actually could care less about like really what happens to them.

00:30:46.87
Adz
Yeah.

00:30:50.59
Russell Gibson
So I think I'm sort of looking at this from a very different perspective in in the sense that if they do bring back BGS, I think that's a very optimistic way of looking at it from this like point of view.

00:31:03.10
Adz
Yeah.

00:31:03.16
Russell Gibson
And, and maybe I'm just being too skeptical, but actually it seems more logical now that it's going to drain this company and just whittle it away. So they do have almost complete market share. Like, That's sort of where I'm at at this point in time.

00:31:15.42
Russell Gibson
Will there be investment into BGS? I don't think so. But the thing that he did speak about, which I think is kind of interesting, is their media potential. Because you remember the Beckett Guide, how that was almost like a ah ah Bible of sorts for collectors.

00:31:26.97
Adz
That was the, that was the nineties Bible.

00:31:27.14
Russell Gibson
like That's such a shame that that has gone to waste. you know Can they somehow bring that back, but in a more modern context? So whether it's with tweets and YouTube pages and you know Instagram reels and stuff like that, like you know that would be wonderful if there was sort of something in that place.

00:31:43.56
Russell Gibson
and And it's really funny, isn't it?

00:31:44.38
Adz
Sure.

00:31:46.70
Russell Gibson
like Think about how many Instagrammers there are and how many influencers there are. i like you know

00:31:51.58
Adz
yeah Yeah, that's...

00:31:52.44
Russell Gibson
Dare I say it, we're going to talk about Jeff Wilson in a second, but like wouldn't it be great If there was that sort of really knowledgeable source, just dropping knowledge on us every twice a week, you know,

00:32:07.19
Adz
Look, um as as much as the integrity side and the scepticism does resonate a lot with me, I'm going to sit back and hope um and and hope that the powers that be do realise that the writings on the wall now, especially now the spotlight's been shone on them, that it's in their interest to rebuild Beckett.

00:32:30.36
Russell Gibson
Yeah.

00:32:30.52
Adz
that I think that I actually think they may have already destroyed SGC, but here's an opportunity to to build Beckett and and do the right thing. And and

00:32:42.71
Russell Gibson
So you're an optimist then?

00:32:44.39
Adz
I'm gonna, um I'm, I, I don't think if this letter to co to to the FTC had come, had if it hadn't come out, I think Beckett would have been written into the ground.

00:32:55.08
Adz
But I think now that this letter surfaced, Beckett might actually have a shot of being re rebirthed by by collectors.

00:33:01.50
Russell Gibson
We'll just do it in a more sneaky way, right?

00:33:03.90
Adz
Well, they'll they'll be forced to, right? Like it's a PR exercise now.

00:33:05.75
Russell Gibson
So, all right. So just hear me out on this. So so Ryan said 13 million Beckett slabs, right? In that article, it says 366,000 Beckett cards. And this is what was saying to you. becke cods and this is what i'll say into you

00:33:18.58
Adz
that's what But that's grading numbers, right? That's recent grading numbers. 13 million is over the years and years and years of Beckett.

00:33:24.04
Russell Gibson
That's what saying to you. add So where do they, there's no references in this article, right? I think context does matter. And so that's what I saying to you earlier, right?

00:33:30.33
Adz
You mean, oh, okay. So you mean the letter to to the FTC?

00:33:32.75
Russell Gibson
Yeah. yeah That's what I was saying to you.

00:33:34.14
Adz
I think it's all current stuff.

00:33:35.19
Russell Gibson
Like, like, what are they talking about? are they talking about the last year? are they talking about the last two months? Like, what are they talking about? Because like, I think 13 million is, it's obviously very different to 366,000, but you know what I'm trying to say, right?

00:33:45.94
Russell Gibson
Yeah.

00:33:46.17
Adz
Yeah, but most of the older the older cards, right?

00:33:47.00
Russell Gibson
The antitrust hurdles,

00:33:50.05
Adz
And you remember what it was like back in the early 2000s, back in the 90s.

00:33:54.38
Russell Gibson
Beckett with PSA.

00:33:55.17
Adz
We didn't get PSA 10s. It was BGS 9.5s.

00:33:57.17
Russell Gibson
Yeah. Yeah, for real. Yeah.

00:34:01.43
Adz
But yeah, the antitrust stuff, I think is going to have a big bearing on this year.

00:34:01.51
Russell Gibson
Yeah. We've touched on that. The collector's roadmaps to investment, I think that's a very good point. And again, if they did have a social media platform, that is something that they could entice people with to sort of, you know, bring us, even if they're false promises, you know, give us something to hope for.

00:34:16.81
Adz
Look, my view is they need, in order to save a public relations nightmare and a Congress level dealings with this FTC investigation, they need to start going the other way.

00:34:18.02
Russell Gibson
Yeah.

00:34:29.79
Russell Gibson
Yeah.

00:34:32.76
Russell Gibson
yeah

00:34:32.88
Adz
Stop being the aggressive monopoly and try and create a nice harmonious hobby environment because if they don't do that, they're going to get investigated and shut down.

00:34:43.99
Russell Gibson
Thank you to Neon Trading Cards for your ongoing support. Go to NeonTradingCards.com. There you'll find a huge array of breaks. Soccer, NBA, MLB, F1, AFL, NRL, WWE, and Marvel find Neon Trading Cards on Whatnot. They are one of the three Australian repackers on Whatnot.

00:35:00.73
Russell Gibson
and they are also one of the only Tops and Fanatics direct breaking partner in Australia. So go check them out, neontradingcards.com, for all of your breaking needs.

00:35:06.97
Adz
Awesome.

00:35:10.16
Russell Gibson
Now, also specific to this week, just keeping in mind when this is recorded um and when it... has gone to air. I hope you guys really enjoyed all of their Christmas day streams and you got onto that. And don't forget, they will be streaming and running breaks every single day of the holidays.

00:35:30.49
Adz
it.

00:35:30.62
Russell Gibson
So don't forget to check in with neon trading cards over this holiday period.

00:35:34.24
Adz
Hope you all got your Topps Chrome fix.

00:35:38.49
Adz
yeah

00:35:43.95
Russell Gibson
Alrighty, we're back. And Adam, just going to go straight into our new segment.

00:35:47.83
Adz
You love doing a recording, don't you

00:35:49.55
Russell Gibson
We've even got a little ah recording intro for it.

00:35:52.50
Adz
is excellent.

00:36:04.89
Russell Gibson
This week's Jeff Wilson recap. We're

00:36:12.74
Russell Gibson
We're going to head over to Jeff Wilson's Twitter and see what is Jeff Wilson up to this week. This scallywag of the hobby, what's he up to this week?

00:36:17.92
Adz
Oh, God. god

00:36:21.46
Russell Gibson
He's taken a tour to New York City and he's gone to Dave and Adams. And he's got his finger pointing up into the air and he's smiling. That's the end of this week's Amazing Adventures with Jeff Wilson. Thank you, everybody, for listening.

00:36:35.93
Russell Gibson
I hope you enjoyed this week's check-in with the internet goat, Jeff Wilson. all Alrighty, our next topic we're going to talk about is the Michael Jordan 1998 molten metal.

00:36:50.41
Adz
Hang on a second. is You only want to say that he went to David Adams. Is that it? He went to New York and pointed up in the air.

00:36:54.95
Russell Gibson
That's pretty much the highlight. That's pretty much his highlight this week.

00:36:59.15
Adz
Didn't put his foot in anything. Didn't say anything stupid.

00:37:01.69
Russell Gibson
Wow, we already highlighted that last week, but we just didn't have the introduction, so.

00:37:04.15
Adz
Fair enough. oh Look, I thought the stupidity was a weekly thing.

00:37:07.83
Russell Gibson
Great to see a big card store in New York City. What do you think? That's that's the most intelligent thing he had to say.

00:37:14.42
Adz
Fair enough. Okay, let's get back to that, Jordan.

00:37:19.45
Russell Gibson
Yeah. 1998 Multimedal Michael Jordan, number 41, Fusion Titanium, numbered to 40, graded by the former Titan BGS, last sold for $433,100.

00:37:34.07
Russell Gibson
one hundred dollars

00:37:35.28
Adz
That's a lot of money.

00:37:37.08
Russell Gibson
We have spoken about this card on the show and I want to go out to a limb and say that we spoke about the last sale, which was midway through 2023. I thought we spoke about this card in 24. So it's possible we spoke about a different graded sale.

00:37:52.60
Adz
Yeah, true.

00:37:54.04
Russell Gibson
All right. I'm pretty sure you know what I'm going to say about this already. i Like my head is just a bit messed up with all these Jordans that selling at the moment for these crazy prices. So I think I'm just going to leave the floor to you.

00:38:05.59
Adz
It's a good looking card. At least it's gold. Gold signifies value, right? So...

00:38:10.26
Russell Gibson
I think it's a great card, but it's the price tag, Ed.

00:38:13.69
Adz
Yeah, but this is this is this is the the world we live in. Like this this kind of stuff was readily available for... Where's the price? here You could have bought this for $200,000 little while back.

00:38:24.29
Adz
don't... a little while back um

00:38:28.25
Russell Gibson
I mean, if you're a finance guy, you'd be licking your lips, right? Like to make that much profit in such a short period of time.

00:38:34.30
Adz
And this ah but this goes back once again, and I'm not going to do this every time we talk about price spikes, but this is why there are people investing into the hobby and then saying, where's the regulatory controls?

00:38:42.44
Russell Gibson
Oh,

00:38:45.59
Russell Gibson
for sure.

00:38:46.10
Adz
Like that value is tied to that BGS 9 value. Can you imagine the value if it's a PSA 10?

00:38:55.51
Adz
And that choice is owned by collectors.

00:39:00.06
Russell Gibson
Yeah. ah Actually, what I do want to do, though, is just go back to but last week and also the week before. We had that Jordan PMG that sold. So just really quickly refreshing. The PMG was BGS 8.5.

00:39:14.94
Russell Gibson
It's numbered to 90 and the pop on the PMG is 11. That's sold for 650.

00:39:19.89
Adz
Yeah.

00:39:21.03
Russell Gibson
So in contrast, we've got this card for 433, population seven, it's numbered to 40. So suppose when you look at it like that, actually, that probably makes it a little bit easier for me.

00:39:28.25
Adz
Yeah.

00:39:32.12
Russell Gibson
Because if you're just doing like the pure numbers game, actually, there's a bit more value in that fusion titanium as opposed to the PMG.

00:39:34.58
Adz
Yeah.

00:39:40.15
Adz
there is ah I think there's a lot of value in and lot of relativity there to it because these cards weren't easy to come by.

00:39:46.33
Russell Gibson
Yeah. I think I'm so stuck on the PMG's fizzled corners though and edges.

00:39:53.72
Adz
Yeah, but this doesn't look like it's got physical corners and edges.

00:39:53.75
Russell Gibson
Like actually, that's what I'm saying.

00:39:55.96
Adz
This is a very sexy card.

00:39:56.81
Russell Gibson
Like so the titanium, i I prefer the aesthetics of this card again.

00:40:00.57
Adz
Yeah, okay. Yeah, I can see that. I can see that. I like it.

00:40:03.99
Russell Gibson
and

00:40:04.92
Adz
I like it.

00:40:07.99
Russell Gibson
Anyway. All right. but that's another Jordan for us to, um, to admire.

00:40:12.96
Adz
To froth over.

00:40:14.07
Russell Gibson
Do you think that's a Wondershine purchase?

00:40:20.02
Adz
No.

00:40:20.73
Russell Gibson
Yeah, I don't think so either.

00:40:22.46
Adz
But that said, maybe they've been listening to us and they've started paying odd numbers to take it to get us off the scent.

00:40:22.61
Russell Gibson
It's not

00:40:27.26
Russell Gibson
to mess with us. Yeah.

00:40:28.38
Adz
Yeah.

00:40:30.33
Russell Gibson
I don't think this fits their Wondershine criteria.

00:40:33.05
Adz
Listening to our show. That

00:40:35.53
Russell Gibson
Well, definitely. I don't think they're listening to our show, but yeah.

00:40:37.27
Adz
doesn't know.

00:40:40.15
Russell Gibson
Do you know what did freak me out a little bit before I put my conspiracy hat on was that vertical integration thing. I want to find that tweet now.

00:40:46.58
Adz
Yeah.

00:40:47.61
Russell Gibson
I reckon they've either ripped off Twitter or it's the same person that tipped him off.

00:40:50.14
Adz
Yeah, yeah.

00:40:54.68
Adz
Possible.

00:40:57.85
Adz
lot of angry people wanting regulation in the hobby. It wasn't me, by the way, that wrote to the congressman.

00:41:01.27
Russell Gibson
I think this is a, um I think this is, i don't think people need to listen to my conspiracy theories live on the show.

00:41:02.77
Adz
I didn't write Patrick.

00:41:07.33
Russell Gibson
think this is an off air conversation.

00:41:11.03
Adz
Just ah the whole regulation thing, it wasn't me, is all I'm saying. I do not know the congressman.

00:41:18.34
Russell Gibson
I don't believe you. Charles Barkley, star card. So I think the more famous card from this set, obviously, is the Michael Jordan card.

00:41:30.31
Russell Gibson
1984, Charles Barkley base, BGS 9. So again, we're talking about like three massive BGS cards in a row here.

00:41:37.02
Adz
Yeah.

00:41:37.19
Russell Gibson
Population at 195. Notched a when it sold for via fixed price with eBay.

00:41:47.58
Adz
Very nice.

00:41:48.57
Russell Gibson
All right. I'm just going to, I'm just going to take the lead on this one and let's go first. I'm just going to push in here. i love this a lot. I actually think that's an absolute bargain. And I think if you're identifying particular cards in a set, which you think has got potential to go up in value, move into the future.

00:41:56.06
Adz
Yeah.

00:42:03.10
Russell Gibson
This is an absolute no brainer. We've already seen it with the Jordan rookie card when there was for a very long period of time with the Fleer card was more expensive than the star card. That narrative is completely flipped around now.

00:42:16.69
Russell Gibson
And so,

00:42:19.51
Russell Gibson
Yeah. Like there's not a lot of, like you can get heaps of Barclay autographs now, like he signs a lot, but sort of between ultra modern and like, yeah, there's some nice 90s inserts.

00:42:27.10
Adz
yeah

00:42:32.42
Russell Gibson
But before that in the eighties, it's like, this is, this is it, isn't it really?

00:42:34.71
Adz
Not a lot. There's not much at all.

00:42:38.26
Adz
Yeah, 100%.

00:42:40.92
Russell Gibson
What do you think about the photography on this card though?

00:42:45.00
Adz
It's very basic.

00:42:46.04
Russell Gibson
Yeah.

00:42:47.35
Adz
but that's but that But that's what Star and Fleer were back then. now like No offense to them. like Stock images. they would They were analog cameras. It wasn't people on digital like lenses getting a billion shots. like It was actual photographers trying to get...

00:43:04.21
Russell Gibson
Like the quality of that photo is about as good as my Jeff Wilson intro.

00:43:04.47
Adz
old school.

00:43:07.91
Russell Gibson
Do you know what i mean?

00:43:09.37
Adz
Sure, but the technology it was taken on was, yeah, I think you've got to give credit where credit's due back back when when that card was made, a I wouldn't have been allowed to use a camera because I'm that I would have been that young.

00:43:10.97
Russell Gibson
like.

00:43:23.10
Adz
But B the cameras in use with the old wine wine click you get 24 exposures and

00:43:30.07
Russell Gibson
They were real pros back then, weren't they?

00:43:31.99
Adz
That's it. They had to get the photos developed. They to get some action. Like, if they went and got a bunch of action shots, got them all developed to figure out which one was the the image.

00:43:40.34
Russell Gibson
yeah

00:43:41.11
Adz
So, like, going back to what technology they had, I think that's not a bad shot.

00:43:46.23
Russell Gibson
We used to get a lot more um

00:43:48.55
Adz
They've got drones that fly around the court these days.

00:43:51.06
Russell Gibson
yeah like images of them shooting free throws. That was like the cleanest shot used to be able to get, right?

00:43:54.84
Adz
Yeah.

00:43:55.42
Russell Gibson
All them dribbling the ball. You're right. The action shots these days are just out of control, aren't they?

00:43:57.18
Adz
Yeah.

00:43:59.34
Russell Gibson
Look, I like the design.

00:43:59.61
Adz
The guy on the sideline taking photos. Yeah.

00:44:02.62
Russell Gibson
i like the design. I hate the holder. love the price. um Yeah. I think this is just like a a fantastic purchase.

00:44:13.12
Adz
That's a nice bit of history. How's that?

00:44:14.23
Russell Gibson
Yeah. it's It's a really cool card. I wonder what these are going for in PSA.

00:44:20.25
Adz
Interesting. The star ones probably a little bit more PSA.

00:44:21.85
Russell Gibson
Yeah.

00:44:25.72
Adz
Ben.

00:44:25.76
Russell Gibson
Alrighty. We are going to do a Jalen Johnson check-in.

00:44:30.82
Adz
Jalen Johnson check-in.

00:44:32.82
Russell Gibson
And then I think what we should do is probably go for a break because that'll keep us relatively on track today after we did go a little bit late.

00:44:39.77
Adz
Yes.

00:44:43.24
Adz
True.

00:44:44.25
Russell Gibson
But that's okay. All

00:44:45.08
Adz
Back into line.

00:44:47.99
Russell Gibson
right. Either I'm spelling Jalen Johnson wrong or he's not on card letter.

00:44:54.93
Adz
Both. both

00:44:59.38
Russell Gibson
Unbelievable. Not on card letter.

00:45:13.91
Adz
Hard to do a check-in if he's not on card ladder.

00:45:18.45
Russell Gibson
Alrighty, there is a few sales here though. So there's a few ROAS that have sold.

00:45:22.55
Adz
Mm-hmm.

00:45:23.13
Russell Gibson
So we're talking about ROAS Silver Prisms. I probably need to clarify that, but just in case, $41, 38.90, 39.89. There's Ice for 15.30. There's Green for 13, an Orange for 15.

00:45:30.84
Adz
Okay.

00:45:30.98
Russell Gibson
Here we this is a nice one. The Rookie Blue numbered 199, PSA 10, that sold for $559. an orange for fifteen here we go this is a nice one the rookie blue number to one hundred and ninety nine psa ten that's sold for five hundred and fifty nine dollars let's just use that because for the, for the time being, unfortunately we can't find him on the actual card letter, which card letter, get your act together, get this guy on the register, ah buy, hold or sell at five 59 ad.

00:45:56.17
Adz
Fair.

00:46:01.26
Russell Gibson
Where are you at with this guy? Okay.

00:46:02.94
Adz
I'd sell at that price. but Oh, that's the way to $199. Yeah, no.

00:46:06.71
Russell Gibson
Yep.

00:46:07.30
Adz
It's probably still a sell. I don't know. i don't I don't see him as like a top of the league kind of player at this stage.

00:46:16.57
Russell Gibson
Okay. Okay.

00:46:17.12
Adz
don't know. He's good, but it just don't get me wrong. I just don't think he he warrants that, we'll call it Cade level, value maybe think cade's a good point where he's taken that leap

00:46:32.88
Russell Gibson
I've been pretty high on this kid for a little while now. And this year, I've, my sort of comp to him was like a team who sort of LeBron James and actually,

00:46:44.22
Adz
team new lebron james okay

00:46:45.88
Russell Gibson
And legit, the way he's been playing this year, i actually, I don't mind that comp like at all. And actually in the last 12 months, his stuff has been really cheap to pick up.

00:46:56.41
Russell Gibson
My probably only regret at this like exact point in time is like, i didn't pick up more just because I think he's definitely picking up that sort of hobby sentiment at the moment where he's gaining some popularity

00:47:06.43
Adz
Okay.

00:47:07.80
Russell Gibson
I think it's just a matter of time until the Hawks move Trey Young. Honestly, I think that injury, that stretch that Trey Young was out and how well the Hawks played and how well Jalen Johnson responded to that responsibility.

00:47:19.64
Russell Gibson
i think that's just all really, really positive signs for that team. So I'm, yeah, I'm super high this kid. I think this is great.

00:47:26.65
Adz
okay

00:47:27.67
Russell Gibson
And look, even if you're still buying stuff at the moment, like, Yeah, actually, let's comp this for a second because you mentioned Trae Young before. All right, so let's just say that Jalen Johnson is selling for $41 because I've got two players in my head um

00:47:45.82
Adz
Okay.

00:47:46.52
Russell Gibson
that is also trading at about $40 for raw silver. a raw silver

00:47:54.33
Russell Gibson
And it's Cade Cunningham and it's Polo Banchero. So just give me two seconds and I'll pull this data up. All right. So a raw Cunningham is 58.

00:48:04.70
Adz
Yep.

00:48:05.27
Russell Gibson
Okay. And a Banchero, i'm I'm actually going to almost swear to you that it's it's going to be about 40 bucks.

00:48:10.54
Adz
It's 40.

00:48:12.73
Russell Gibson
So for a Banchero raw.

00:48:14.58
Adz
I take a I take a Kate at 58 for sure.

00:48:19.70
Adz
Yeah, okay.

00:48:20.18
Russell Gibson
So technically, Jalen Johnson is selling more than Banchero.

00:48:21.24
Adz
And share is been bench areas definitely on a decline though this year.

00:48:24.60
Russell Gibson
So the price schedule at the moment is Banchero, Jalen Johnson, Cade Cunningham. And I think that's what we're seeing in the league at the moment, isn't it? Like, yeah.

00:48:33.18
Adz
Great.

00:48:33.91
Russell Gibson
all right. Let's go for a break.

00:48:37.78
Russell Gibson
and we will be back. US Sports Cards Australia, thank you so much for your ongoing support. Go ussportscardsaustralia.com.au.

00:48:48.80
Russell Gibson
There you will find a whole range of products, brakes, car protection, Ross's beloved water pistols, and of course, don't forget about his card consignment service.

00:48:56.07
Adz
They're awesome.

00:49:02.04
Russell Gibson
If you would like to have a sneak peek at his new website, go to Instagram and search for comca.tradingcards. And there you'll see an updated image of what his page is going to be looking like very, very shortly. Now, if you are a You Can't Comp This listener, you can have an entire sub done to comca for $0.09. It's normally $0.09 per card, but just write on your submission sheet, anywhere on the sheet, you can't comp this.

00:49:30.17
Russell Gibson
and you will get your entire sub for $0.09. Recent sales on the site have been $600, $390, $240, $165. So Ross is getting some great sales going through there.

00:49:41.26
Adz
Tops

00:49:42.41
Russell Gibson
I've recently set up my account. It was easy to do. I've done my first submission. i just have to go on there and do my pricing, and I'm going get some sales live in the next week or so. so I'm pretty excited about that. Thanks again to US s Sports Cards Australia.

00:49:58.15
Russell Gibson
Alrighty, Ad, we're back and we're into the final quarter. We're going to talk about Topps buyback. I am very, very, very excited about this.

00:50:04.73
Adz
hos buyback.

00:50:09.11
Russell Gibson
I am very excited about It's official. and MVP buyback is coming to basketball. Topps Chrome basketball arrives next week. Make sure to hold onto the cards of your pick for the NBA MVP.

00:50:22.10
Russell Gibson
So basically how this works is you take in any card of the MVP and once the award's been announced, you go to your lot local basketball shop and they will give you a i set, like a pre, what's the word?

00:50:35.07
Russell Gibson
A designated value for each card that you take in and they'll buy them all back from you.

00:50:38.31
Adz
Yeah.

00:50:40.54
Russell Gibson
um Yeah, I think this is a really, really cool thing that they've done. And I actually wish they would take this out further to you know to another step. Like for example,

00:50:52.57
Russell Gibson
all defensive team or rookie of the year or most improved, you know, something like that to, you know, make it, it's not just like one guy, particularly that sort of, you know, really big guy where you don't really need the sales.

00:50:52.81
Adz
Award winners. Yeah.

00:51:05.02
Adz
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

00:51:07.39
Russell Gibson
Like it'll be somehow fun if you could have a card that, you were kind of happy to get rid of and someone would buy it back, even if it was less than market value where, you know, you just sort of take in a whole pile of cards and they'll buy them back from you.

00:51:19.44
Russell Gibson
Like, I think that would be kind of cool. But at the same time too, definitely this is not a complaint.

00:51:21.14
Adz
Yeah.

00:51:23.68
Russell Gibson
I think this is super awesome. I think it's a really good way to get people to go into hobby shops.

00:51:28.86
Adz
Yeah. A hundred percent. Agreed.

00:51:29.78
Russell Gibson
So, yeah, you'll be getting some money back, but I'm pretty sure you're going to spend more than you get back on, you know, the next box of sealed or, you know, whatever it is that happens, you know, to to sort of go through.

00:51:30.10
Adz
Yeah.

00:51:38.62
Russell Gibson
So what's your thoughts on this, man? What what do you think?

00:51:41.66
Adz
Like, it I think it's something different. It's a little bit, I don't know. It could be like a, like, Yeah, I don't know. It's just weird. I like it.

00:51:52.05
Adz
Like, i don't I don't know what it looks like, but I like it. I like i like that they're trying new things.

00:51:54.59
Russell Gibson
Yeah. Yeah.

00:51:57.53
Adz
I like it a lot, so...

00:52:00.28
Russell Gibson
All right, the next thing for us to talk about is Fanatics distribution. So this is coming from Barbell Breaks. Heartbreaking news today. Fanatics Breaker program is now being massively downsized to provide more allocated stock for bigger breakers. We are unfortunately collateral damage don't know what of this hobby anymore. It's becoming everything hate. Greed and legit gambling moved to top.

00:52:28.95
Russell Gibson
so you might need to um use your urban dictionary at home if you've got kids around for that one i don't know what to make of this hobby anymore it's becoming everything i hate greed and legit gambling has moved to the top I've got quite a bit to think about, but I think once April, May rolls around, I'm done for good. I absolutely love breaking for you guys. So I'm gutted. I just don't know if I can support a company that poops on the little guy to make a few more bucks.

00:52:56.72
Russell Gibson
All right. So I think for some sort of context for this, since this person put out this post, i think a lot more people have put up their hands and said, you know, I'm also included in this downsize, um,

00:53:08.49
Adz
There's a lot of people that are s SOL. Okay.

00:53:10.55
Russell Gibson
Yeah, um by Fanatics. And I think for me, I can't work this out. I don't know if they're having problems with distribution. Like they've really underestimated how much distribution chain Panini had in place through David Adams, through through...

00:53:24.75
Adz
Yep. Production and yeah.

00:53:27.85
Russell Gibson
gts and through you know, blow out all that type of stuff, you know all those sort of little trickle down chains that was in place. So I don't know if that's the issue where they literally can't distribute out to all these people or they don't have enough stock to get to everybody. Like, is there not ah enough stock being printed or do we now actually beginning to realize actually how much stock Panini printed? Because Panini were very cagey about that.

00:53:55.19
Adz
Yeah, maybe but

00:53:56.25
Russell Gibson
They didn't have pack odds on on the packets. They never really told you how much stuff was out there. like you know we We joke about junk wax. Maybe we just went through the biggest junk wax error that's ever ever existed.

00:54:10.17
Adz
i think there there ah I think there's, I think there's, there's, there's evidence to say that that might have been the case.

00:54:11.19
Russell Gibson
That's fine. you know

00:54:15.53
Adz
But I look,

00:54:15.74
Russell Gibson
o

00:54:18.89
Adz
I don't like to be the, I've been very hard line on a lot of things, but it's early days for tops.

00:54:23.13
Russell Gibson
that's one

00:54:25.17
Adz
So I think, I think them getting their, their supply chain stuff in line and, and Panini, obviously they were buying patterns.

00:54:36.11
Adz
They were, there were distribution arms that had responsibilities and things developed over time, right? Every year the distribution got, or the the controls and the and the way they did it changed.

00:54:50.42
Adz
I won't always say improved because that might not be the case, but this is, this is I know they've done other they've been doing other sports for years, but they're back in basketball. So maybe they're they've they've rolled it out one way and gone, you know what, we've got to change this.

00:55:05.18
Adz
but You can't change it in the moment.

00:55:08.86
Adz
And you've got to plan these things out months in advance. So I think the damage is done for the first few releases. And I have to take that data and learn from it.

00:55:20.66
Russell Gibson
Yeah, look, I'm not too sure. I think um you also need to take it with a little bit of a grain of salt too, because clearly this guy's salty. And then as he's leaving the place, he's saying that everything I hate is you know greed and gambling, which I think people have also associated that with breakers too.

00:55:28.31
Adz
Yeah, yeah.

00:55:35.10
Russell Gibson
So you know we need to be bit careful of you know how much we believe this. I will say though that there is a number of large, very reputable breakers in Australia that now do not have tops.

00:55:46.84
Russell Gibson
And literally are saying the same thing as this guy. Like, what do we do next? We're not getting allocation. So now what do we do? You know, and I think this is a real thing. I think the landscape of breaking is changing dramatically in front of our eyes. And if if this is true,

00:56:03.26
Russell Gibson
we are now going to be forced to go to all of the allocated breakers, which is going to be filth bombs, which is going to be backyard breaks, which is going to be the fanatics platform.

00:56:12.38
Adz
Yeah,

00:56:13.91
Russell Gibson
And I think, you know, more local to us, it's going to be berry collectibles and it's going to be, of course, our sponsors neon trading cards.

00:56:21.48
Adz
yeah. Neon, of course.

00:56:21.70
Russell Gibson
Right. Right.

00:56:22.12
Adz
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

00:56:22.42
Russell Gibson
like But do you know what I mean? Like, all you know, ultimately this is like what the landscape could very well look like. Whereas we had a lot more, and I'm going to include myself into this, the mums and dads breakers who just did it as a hobby and enjoyed opening their one or two boxes a week.

00:56:28.43
Adz
Yeah.

00:56:37.02
Russell Gibson
I think all of those amateur guys are going to be erased. You know, I think that's potentially what could be on the landscape here.

00:56:47.16
Russell Gibson
And, and look,

00:56:47.96
Adz
I think there'll be a downturn, but I think there'll be an adjustment. I think there'll be a course correction. And I, I, I don't think they're going to let that section of the the hobby die. That said you can't like when tops were back,

00:57:02.14
Adz
When tops were around last time, and this is going back quite a ways, breakers didn't exist.

00:57:10.84
Adz
When Panini started, breakers didn't exist. the The way we open product now is very different to how we opened product in the nineties. Do you know what i mean? Like I would go out and I would save up and I would buy a box of cards, whatever it was. like do you know i mean? Like,

00:57:31.64
Adz
FLIR Ultra, I would save up and i would buy a box of FLIR Ultra and I would get my one per box card and I would, do you know what I mean?

00:57:39.77
Russell Gibson
I hear you loud and clear. Yeah.

00:57:41.85
Adz
and now you you, and I, when I came back into the hobby and breaking had sort of just taken off, it was pay them an amount of money, watch someone break the whole case and get the cut And get the hits.

00:57:54.93
Russell Gibson
Yeah.

00:57:55.18
Adz
Didn't even get the base cards. Like it was – like there was – the amount of change this hobby has gone through in the last decade –

00:58:06.30
Russell Gibson
Significant.

00:58:07.42
Adz
crazy And I think there is a ah ah level of it ebbs and flows.

00:58:08.31
Russell Gibson
Yeah.

00:58:13.45
Adz
And I i feel the pain of of this this guy saying it feels like the gamblers are winning because that's what breaking feels like. If you go into a random team break, you're literally just gambling.

00:58:26.77
Adz
You go, I'm going to get one in 30 chance of getting a good team and we'll see what happens.

00:58:29.72
Russell Gibson
You hope to go overs on your spot. Yeah. A hundred percent.

00:58:32.44
Adz
Right?

00:58:33.28
Russell Gibson
Yeah.

00:58:33.46
Adz
it's It's a different type of raffle, but... That will adjust. we We went from case breaks to box breaks. Like things evolve, things ebb and flow.

00:58:45.57
Adz
Jeez, we've had repackers enter the breaking field. Do you know, like people are trying different things.

00:58:49.02
Russell Gibson
Yeah.

00:58:51.98
Adz
And I think now that Tops, as I said, we've only seen the two, really a couple of releases. Let's see what the what the production looks like.

00:59:04.47
Adz
when the dust settles. Because they need some tangible sales data for this market. And I'm not defending them, I'm just saying they're not just gonna let distribution die in the ass.

00:59:14.74
Russell Gibson
Yeah, I think, yeah, but I think logically add, if you're cutting people out, that means you're pretty confident what you've got, you're going to be able to sell. So you don't need, sure.

00:59:24.70
Adz
That means you've got limited you've got a limited supply.

00:59:28.28
Russell Gibson
Or other people can fill it.

00:59:30.84
Adz
Yeah, or they are they they're saying, okay, so we as I said, it's got to be forecast. The production has to be forecast. So what they've done is they've produced a finite amount and they haven't been able to fill orders and they've gone, oh, shit, we have not produced anywhere near enough cards.

00:59:47.06
Adz
But what they have to do is it's a six-month production line. but The next lot of distribution is in production. They can't go and make twice as many cards because there's a production line that cuts off at a point.

01:00:01.66
Adz
And they're saying, oh shit, demand is super high. We need to make more. What do we do? We're buying buildings. being a These things will take time. I just ah think there's going to be a correction, and I think they will open up distribution once they once the dust settles.

01:00:17.02
Russell Gibson
And to be fair, To be fair, that also happened with Panini too. There was a point when demand you know grossly outstripped supply and you can make a pretty strong argument that was 18, 19.

01:00:22.63
Adz
Yeah.

01:00:29.30
Adz
And then they're adjusted.

01:00:30.23
Russell Gibson
And then after that, they printed the life out of that stuff. you know I think we have to touch on just one more thing here because I think this is really important.

01:00:36.82
Adz
Yeah, yeah, for sure, for sure.

01:00:38.29
Russell Gibson
It's not just breakers they'll be cutting out too. It's going to be hobby shops. And that's...

01:00:42.38
Adz
100%, yeah.

01:00:42.64
Russell Gibson
That's probably the one where I feel, it's not that I don't feel badly for breakers. Like that's not what I mean, but I think let's use, let's use, let's use like EJ cards.

01:00:50.34
Adz
Breakers will find a way. Breakers will find a way to break product, right?

01:00:55.99
Russell Gibson
And and this is, I, I'm just using them as an example and i I know nothing. Right. But you know, they're paying rent, they've got their employees. And now if they're not get, if they're not, and I'm and i'm not saying I know this at all, this I'm just using it as an example.

01:01:08.98
Russell Gibson
Let's just hypothetically say now they're not getting the allocation. Like that's,

01:01:11.70
Adz
Yeah.

01:01:12.76
Russell Gibson
I think that's killing their business. There's no other way to say that. And I think that to me, that wasn't part of the manifesto.

01:01:16.63
Adz
Sure. Yeah.

01:01:21.37
Russell Gibson
Let me put it to you that way.

01:01:23.19
Adz
Agreed.

01:01:23.22
Russell Gibson
You know, that's not what they pledged.

01:01:23.99
Adz
ah Agreed. Um, um, yeah, I'm not, I'm not, and I'm not defending that at all.

01:01:26.07
Russell Gibson
And so that's the part of it I hate.

01:01:28.12
Adz
I think.

01:01:29.50
Russell Gibson
And I think if there's one part of, I agree with this is the greed part, you know, like, is this really what we, we want from our hobby? You know,

01:01:36.63
Adz
and And this is the thing, like, i don't know if they've, obviously they've thought about it, but I don't want us to become Pokemon in the fact that the people that actually, the the collect the grassroots collectors can't get their hands on the product because there's not enough product.

01:01:52.71
Russell Gibson
um' percent I do. you know Well, my opinion on this is I hope they somehow work out a product where it's on demand, where you can just go online, you just get a box and it's a re even if it's a retail box, that's got no guaranteed hits.

01:02:01.41
Adz
Sure.

01:02:07.70
Adz
You know what?

01:02:07.99
Russell Gibson
ah The price is fixed.

01:02:08.22
Adz
i think i think I think the flagship product every year should be an unlimited print run.

01:02:14.65
Russell Gibson
Sure. But like, I think hobby, you still keep all your hobby hits in it, but just say you're buying blasters or megas, whatever the, you know, it is

01:02:19.03
Adz
For sure. You know, but the retail product doesn't come with the numbered stuff and just you just print the shit out of it.

01:02:23.58
Russell Gibson
Yeah, that's right. Yeah, literally.

01:02:25.48
Adz
It's just for kids to collect sets.

01:02:27.38
Russell Gibson
But there's no end on it either. Like, you know, you're talking about to like start and stuff.

01:02:29.18
Adz
Yeah.

01:02:30.66
Russell Gibson
I'm like that, you know, it's probably not a popular opinion, but that's what I would want.

01:02:31.67
Adz
like All right, so I'll go and I'll go one step. No, no, but you make it the set that the kids collect.

01:02:35.59
Russell Gibson
Yeah.

01:02:37.52
Adz
You make it a huge base set and and you you even have a point of redemption there where you get to a certain point in the season and kids can write in to say, I need these cards for my set, pay it a fee and get their cards.

01:02:51.54
Russell Gibson
Or go to com.ca.

01:02:54.30
Adz
But that's for holograms and stuff. Like, I mean, if you're looking for the base three cards to complete your Cleveland Cavaliers set,

01:03:02.21
Russell Gibson
Yeah.

01:03:02.84
Adz
and your little Timmy, you can pay $3 and write to Topps and they'll send the cards out to you, whatever.

01:03:07.58
Russell Gibson
That would be a fun experience, but I, no I'm not going to say something negative. That's a lovely idea, Adam. I think that would be fantastic.

01:03:16.22
Adz
technology we've got these days, I don't think it's actually beyond the realm of possibility.

01:03:18.06
Russell Gibson
Yeah.

01:03:21.06
Russell Gibson
Yeah.

01:03:22.30
Adz
Anyway.

01:03:23.45
Russell Gibson
We're at the end of our this week's show. i can't believe we' we've done two shows in two days and

01:03:28.86
Adz
We didn't get to just randomly comp cards.

01:03:31.67
Russell Gibson
we didn't, which I thought this was going to be half the show was going to be just us making up comps.

01:03:32.73
Adz
because there's news. There's lots of news.

01:03:37.62
Russell Gibson
So anyway, we did it.

01:03:39.37
Adz
Sorry, we can do some buy, hold, sell, some some comping, some stuff when we come back in the new year.

01:03:45.31
Russell Gibson
Cool.

01:03:46.87
Adz
um Speaking of which, thank you for for for an awesome show, Russell.

01:03:50.59
Russell Gibson
Yeah. Thank you, man.

01:03:52.34
Adz
thanks to all of Thanks to all of our listeners.

01:03:52.31
Russell Gibson
Merry Christmas. Happy New Year.

01:03:55.30
Adz
Have a safe new year. Hope your Christmas was amazing. where're we're We're probably going to take a break next week and ease into 2026.

01:04:05.50
Russell Gibson
Unless something crazy happens.

01:04:07.00
Adz
Unless, you know, the US Congress, the site the FTC call a crazy emergency yeah hearing and there's some drama.

01:04:15.67
Russell Gibson
If Jeff Wilson does a silly post, I think we'll come back and

01:04:19.64
Adz
Look, I'm i'm sure you could put together a little IG reel with that tune and it's just like a repost of Jeff Wilson's stuff.

01:04:29.88
Russell Gibson
I should get onto this.

01:04:30.87
Adz
You should do that. Just like repost some of his content just with the you yeah yeah AI yodeling of Jeff Wilson.

01:04:36.31
Russell Gibson
Yeah.

01:04:37.26
Adz
I love it.

01:04:38.30
Russell Gibson
Thanks.

01:04:39.08
Adz
um' I'm sure he'll love it when he sees it.

01:04:41.53
Russell Gibson
Probably.

01:04:42.39
Adz
Yeah. It'd be great.

01:04:45.66
Russell Gibson
Thanks everybody.

01:04:45.89
Adz
Anyway, thanks for a great 2025.

01:04:46.59
Russell Gibson
Happy

01:04:47.79
Adz
We will see you in 2026.

01:04:49.81
Russell Gibson
new year. Yeah.